Indigenous Peoples & Foods - Action Dome, UNCCD COP17
Conferences
Date: 22 August 2026
Language: Floor (Original)
Transcript: https://transcripts.un.org/ar/asset/k12/k12r20h0h1?lang=floor
Transcripts available through this tool are created by using automatic speech recognition and are not official records nor official documents of the United Nations. Official records and official documents are available on the Official Document System of the United Nations.

---

Speaker 1 [0:00]:

Allows them not to come into restoration at will, but they know that they have to embed strategies of restoration within their ministerial ministerial frameworks. Thank you so much.


Moderator · William [0:12]:

Wow, that's an impressive story. Thank you very much for sharing. And it reminds me to an experience I had many years ago. Actually, it was the first time when I went out of Europe as a young student, biology student. I went to India. So Namrita, I'm looking at you as well. And I went to Tamil Nadu. And in Tamil Nadu, at that time, of course, it was dry and it was dry season. I had a conversation with a farmer. There was a lack of water. There was a lot of problems. You had those beautiful systems of water tanks, old ancient water system. But that farmer wasn't working at Many of those tanks were not working anymore. And I had a conversation with that farmer. And that farm was a bit strange, because it was like he had a half hectare, so let's say a few acres. And it was beautifully green. It really worked well. It was malmaintained, while the rest of all the other farms were pretty lousy, a lot of erosion and so on. So I asked him, why is this different than the others? How come? And he shared a story. He said, Listen. Of course, I was lucky enough there was someone who could translate because my Tamil is not very good. It's nonexistent. And he said, Listen, When my wife passed away, I went to the forest. I was so sad. So I went up to the hills, to the forest. And I was sitting under a tree, and I thought what shall I do? What can I do? Because his wife was ill and he passed away. And he said, Yeah, what happened to me is that that at a certain moment, a kind of inner response came, and the forest answered and said something like, You should do farming in a different way, and listen to me. So he went back, and he started to look at the soil, and started to more working with the soil and you and working in the different we would now say more regenerative way, working, working with nature instead of against it. So water harvesting, all these things he was trying to do. And gradually, he moved up and the farming and the yield went up. And it stabilized despite the rains or the tough situation of climate and whatever. And but he so I asked him, so what what was your insight? And he said, actually, well, my insight was that while I was restoring the soil, the soil, it was restoring my soul. And I found that sentence so beautiful. Restoring the soil is helping to restore the soul. His his soul that was, you know, sad because of his loss of his his wife. So that story always helped me and helped me also to coin the losses. And I now think that if we open up the conversation about losses with people in degraded landscapes, it will open up also the potential of restoring the land. Because you cannot restore the land only with technical and financial means because there are people living out there. And if people are not willing to do this, because we work at scale, watersheds, so we work at a few hundred thousand hectares at a long period of time, you can't do this work. This is not only business and not only governments and not only finance industry that that of course they can create the enabling conditions, as we have been discussing a lot. You know, hopefully now in the European Union, we can work with the restoration law. That would be helpful. Of course, if companies are feeling the pain, they will move into the gain. I mean, that's how companies work. So we all know that. But still, there are people out there And if they so you need to bring them along. And that's why I was looking at you, Namrita, because you work with the Foundation for Ecological Security in India. Maybe you can share a little bit about why you were doing what you were doing. You still have some few minutes before the drinks. I'm seeing the drinks and the food coming in. So we can continue the conversation after after the closure. And I would love to take a picture with all of you before we go into the food and drinks. And there is coffee for you, Jason, if you need more. So maybe Namriti, you can share a little bit about your work in India and how how this affects your work.


Namrita [4:50]:

Thank you, William.

So first of all, the questions why I'm doing this and what motivates me, inspires me to do that. I still have my childhood experience with me when I was I was bought up in an area which is forested, spring, and so lots of greenery. We used to go every Sunday for a picnic. So I really dreamed that all the kids have that kind of childhood with them. So that's more motivates me to continue with my work. And I'm very fortunate that I joined this we cannot say that restoration conservation, but making things as it is. Whatever is the nature, how the the ecosystems are working, how they regenerate themselves, how can we make those things function? So I work with the Foundation for Ecological Security. And we understand that commons is a common land as a critical connecting between the livelihood and the ecological health. And though we understand the criticality, but very unfortunate, most of the countries, and especially India, name this commons as a wasteland. They understand that these lands are not productive, not giving very much economic gains to the community. But but we never see any land which is which is not used, not cared, not maintained by the community. So I mean, we always question ourselves, we identify that there is a technical restoration processes, there are the conservation things, there are tenure, right? But how the communities conserve or protect or maintain their things. So what we found that communities don't don't segregate things in what they are using. it, or whether they are conserving it, or they are maintaining it for the futures, they do everything together. Like if I take an example from the Central India where Common Lan Williams is also working. We are also working. The women are so careful when they take any tuber from the forest area. They always leave 10% of that as such, they take it from a very, very technically sounded manner so that it should not disturb the colony of the tuber. So those are the if women go in the forest for a fuel vote, they don't pick the twigs from the green area. They almost spend whole day to collect the dry, dry twigs from the forest. So there's so much of care about their resources. They so much of knowledge about their resources. And why? But with all care and knowledge, why they are not able to do it? That's the question with us. So we, I mean, we understand that the narratives are very, very undermining the community's agency. They see that community as a beneficiary rather than a knowledge holder. So how we can work towards those narratives so that the restoration should not be like a externally driven thing, but how the communities understand how the communities are protecting. They should continue to protect. How we can build their stewardship more and more. That's the way we are working there.


Moderator · William [8:50]:

Thank you Wonderful Thank you Thank you very much for sharing Um yeah I just want to go back to to my colleagues on the on the left and the right side for some closing remarks before we move into the drinks and the bites So Helmi if you hear everything here what comes to your mind Maybe you can share it in a very short


Helmi [9:12]:

Yeah I'd love to share

Your question was, when do I feel one with my purpose? And then I heard all these examples and I said, how lucky I am. Because we have built into our daily life the moments where you can connect to your source. And it's not only me, it's all of our people, the whole community. We have put in rituals. We start our day in a circle. And guess what? The restoration of the soul starting in this circle every single day. We have every week meetings about division where everyone is sharing on division. We have every meetings, places where we have spaces of culture, where everyone contributes as an artist. So moments where you can restore your soul. Moments where you can connect to your sources. Build into your daily restoration work, ecosystem restoration work, is for me the source of having this wholeness of feeling the power and the happiness. And I can just recommend build this into your community's daily life. It gives you power. It gives you inspiration. It gives you happiness. And you see it when the eyes of your people shine. Then you are on the path of ecosystem restoration starting in your soil. Soul.


Moderator · William [10:51]:

Thank you very much And wow yes I recommend going to your website and see the pictures of those immense circles of people on the I think it's Sechem sechem.com right


Namrita [11:04]:

Yeah better k


Moderator · William [11:05]:

Yeah thank you very much Bethany some final words and conclusions or whatever you would like to share with us before we end this session


Bethany [11:16]:

I think that we hear a lot of the same thing from everybody. And it comes back to this idea that, you know, you said restoring your soul, restoring the soil. and restoring your soul. But what is it that makes that happen, right? You talked about seeing going from plenty to going to degradation, right? And no longer do you have those things And and you were out in the field as a kid, and you brought your your kids in the field. in the field And the thing that I think is challenging is that when people experience nature and then experience the loss of nature, then they care. And too many people are too separated from nature to see that it matters, and to see that they can't survive without nature, because they live in an urban area and they don't understand that they can't survive without nature. So I guess I would put the challenge back to all of us to say, how do we create those feelings of compassion with nature and understanding that we are natural, that we are nature, and and maybe even more so in this time of AI, when people don't trust what they see, you can trust what you feel and interact with. So maybe it's an even greater reason why we need to get more people in nature without loving it to death, but at least experiencing it in some way, and experiencing that this is who we are, this is what we need And if and if nature is not thriving, we will not thrive either. And and this is the path to getting nature to thrive. And therefore, it's the path to getting us as humans to thrive, too. And how do we get the people who don't have those visceral tactical experiences to have the emotional experience as well? Because it seems that the emotional experience comes from the physical engagement. And so I'm left with a question back to everyone of how do we do it if you don't get to see it and experience it, right? But everybody who does seems to have a very similar reaction. So that's very, very hopeful.


Moderator · William [13:47]:

Thank you. We only have a few seconds I see here now. 30 seconds so Koenraad, one word that comes up to your minds and similar for Jason. I'm sorry, we will have more time at the drinks and bites. Koenraad, what is the word that is? now in your mind or in your heart maybe


Netherlands (Kingdom of the) · Koenraad [14:15]:

I was one of. Yeah, so these are a few words. I'll keep it short. One of the great things of my current job is I get to go to other places in the world. And what I've seen there and if I talk to the people coming from a place like the Netherlands in Western Europe, which is one of the countries which apparently has the biggest division between feeling of nature and people. I'm so inspired and hopeful about all the other visions and places where this division is much smaller, or nonexistent, and where there's a lot of vision and wisdom that we can learn from. So, yeah, the return range, like I said, in the Netherlands, definitely, but elsewhere in the world, I think it's there.


Moderator · William [15:10]:

Thank you very much. Jason,


Jason [15:13]:

Inspiration.


Moderator · William [15:15]:

I think that's a very nice closure of this session. So let's indeed try to maximize ROI Return of Inspiration in this new emerging restoration industry. I would love to invite you to come all over here. We take a picture, and then we go for some food and drinks, and we continue the conversation. Thank you very much. Applause to all the panel members, please.


Speaker 15 [15:49]:

Thanks for bringing us.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [15:59]:

Let's let's Hi, everyone. We are shortly going to begin our film showcase, Before Mo is Lost. It's a short film, six minutes. We'll begin with an introduction. So feel free to grab some food and take your seats, and we'll start to say,


Speaker 17 [21:29]:

Guys, it's really nice that you're networking, but the sound is kind of carrying forward. If you could request just a little bit of attention from you guys, they're also now here taking a few ways. As I said, take some food You give me a sign and we'll go up. About Instant, I don't want to come out with that. Just please start by driving their attention. Just saying, you know, what I'm saying?

540.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [24:17]:

Hi everyone can I please have your attention here? We are shortly going to begin presenting our film, which is from an indigenous pastoral community in the Eastern Himalayas. I really appreciate that your networking, but some attention here would be really nice. So we'll start with a short introduction. And before we do that, excuse me guys. Would be nice with some attention. here, guys. Okay, thank you for joining. And before we start with the introduction, a big thanks to Wagaki and the Global Landscapes Initiative G 20 team for having us here. We're really honored. I'll pass over to Dava Sangpo Bhutia to introduce himself.


India · Conservationist and documentary filmmaker · Dava Sangpo Bhutia [25:21]:

Hello. Yeah, that's Leh. I am Dava Sampoo Bhutia and I'm from Sikkim, India. So I'm a conservationist and a documentary filmmaker. And I come from a traditional community. Uh so yeah so I mostly work with my community community and right now, I'm working with my community, youth, youth in my community. Uh so, we have a youth group called Yambung Eco Tourism Committee that is YC. So we work for revival of ancestral foods and traditional culture and traditions and culture. And we are mostly working with the conservation of yak herding practices in the Eastern Himalayas in Sikkim. So we formed this youth group. It's like the youth group is just below 30. All are like my age. And right now we are working with the community to preserve and conserve our yak herding practices in Sikkim.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [26:46]:

And to that, I would like to add that it's not only the yak herding practices because also the yak herders are practicing agriculture and foraging foods from the forest. So we also look at the entire food system. I'm Radhika Gupta. And the first time I went to Dava's communities was 15 years ago, on a red panda project by an NGO. And that's when I started to question conservation of what and for whom I got to spend a lot of time with the communities and hear about community perspectives. I did my research there to learn about their own agenda. And the research findings told me that the diversity of foods was being lost because of a ban on grazing, and restricted access of the herding communities to the forest for. conservation. Rice was provided free of cost, which also increased dependency on the outside. And of course, then the associated knowledge was being lost. But during this time, I also realized that science had already described this problem 20 years ago, that wasn't very motivating to find out, and this trend is present across the Hindu Kush. Also, a village elder asked me, You will get your master's degree, but what will we get in return? So these things stayed with me. And now when I have gone back with a lot of efforts to find funding to do something. I met with Dava and his youth group, New Blood, New Generation, who were probably in school when I had gone back. And they decided to come back to their villages just when I went back to their villages. And our visions completely aligned around reviving their traditions and food practices, herding practices and farming and so on. And now together we run a project called Befomo is Lost. And we're going to present a short film about not just the problems, but the action that the youth is taking to act on those problems. We are in the action dome, and that's what we're going to present to you. Thank you.


Speaker 21 [29:20]:

Futila Yala Sidha Far away,

In the western part of Sikkim lies my beautiful land of five villages Chauri, Sindrabung, Sankhola, Chirinchok, and Barsibung. Here, among mountains, rivers, and forests, lives a community of yak herders whose lives have always been connected to land, tradition, and time itself. For generations, we lived independently. We were farmers, gatherers and pastoralists. Our food came from our fields. our medicines from the forests, and our knowledge from our elders. External perspectives of what development and progress mean slowly reached our villages. Food subsidies altered our staple diets. Seeds from the outside replaced our own. Above all, a ban on grazing to conserve forests was implemented on a land we consider to be sacred. Little by little, we became more dependent on things from the outside. Many older traditions were left behind as our people moved towards less diverse and less nutritious diets.

Time to get your money. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Mokai, Alu, Alu, Alu, Alu, Airport 1111, they are not. They are not. They are not. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. They are. Naki, what is the gender? Any ILS? Yeah, I'll be like that. You know, by the way, 30, 30, 30, no. Kelly, what do you say? Pure, I will. Follow me. What's up? Only. Time. of a somate that I'm really just a lag of I let you say so.

Jera,

Nani, Roba, Visi, Sontera, by Raba, you can't be Naru, I'm not sure you're bunny. Why are you boy? When he keen Salah, and he called Lyon, keen Salah, and you matter like I mean like a CD because

Decided to act before more is lost. We believe that protecting our future begins with remembering our roots. We carry a dream to revive our ancestral foods, culture, and ways of life for generations to come. On the 14th of March 2026, this dream took its first step. People from all five villages came together, not just as individuals, but as one community. We brought with us five pieces of cloth, each in a different color, Blue, white, green, red, and yellow. Each color representing a village, and together reflecting the five elements of nature. With natural ink made from wild mushrooms by a village elder, we painted our visions of reclaiming our food sovereignty and how we would thrive, even if all external support was cut off. Piece by piece, the fabric came alive. Then, stitched together with threads of Yakul, it transformed into a Loomta or the wind horse that would carry our intentions and prayers into the skies as the ink faded away. A symbol of unity, identity and hope. And as the flag was raised, it became more than just cloth and color. It became a promise, a promise to protect our seeds, soil, and knowledge. To carry our traditions forward and to keep the dream alive. The journey has begun and we intend to reclaim our land food and identity. We want policymakers to listen to our agendas before providing solutions that don't fit our realities. Connect with us to support locally driven knowledge transfer from our elders to the youth, and to support knowledge exchange between different youth groups.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [35:35]:

Thank you so much for staying with us. Before we open for questions, I would just like to quickly check if there are any young pastoralists or any pastoralists in the room. Any herders. Yahaper koi haras hai to pliz apna hath utaiye. So nice to meet you. We really really keen to know. We are really keen to know what kind of challenges you are facing, to sustain youth interest in your pastoral and farming activities, and what action you're taking to change that. And Wagaki, I'm not sure if you heard us before. I once again really want to thank you for having us here. So do we have any questions or answers to my question around what you're doing to sustain the youth interest? We would like to hear from you first and then take questions from the audience.


Jordan · Interpreter [36:51]:

Good afternoon. Thank you very much. She she would speak in Arabic and I will interpret for her if you okay.


Jordan · راعية [37:02]:

أول شيء مرحبا، وأنا سعيدة جدا بوجودي هنا، أنا من الأردن، من البادية الجنوبية، إحنا منطقة رعوية، نشتغل فيها الشباب والسيدات.


Jordan · Interpreter [37:13]:

ألو، أنا قطنة من جوردان، أنا pastor from the southern part of Jordan. And we keep livestock and we engage youth with our activities.


Jordan · راعية [37:28]:

نحن بصراحة من أهم المشاكل التي نحن الآن نواجهها هو التغير المناخي، هذا كان له أثر كبير على النباتات الطبيعية المهددة بالانقراض، وهذا أثر على نسبة الرعي في مناطقنا.

الآن. تأثير الشباب أو ما تحصل على

شيء. أه. الآن إحنا شجعنا الشباب على زراعة هاي النباتات الطبيعية من خلال مشتل طبيعي ل لإعادة هاي النباتات الطبيعية من خلال جمع البذور الأصيلة وزراعتها وتوزيعها في المناطق حتى تتكاثر وما تتأثر بالتغير المناخي.


Jordan · Interpreter [38:20]:

We started a project with the young people. So we collect the the indigenous seeds, and we regrow them, and distribute them to the people to grow them.


Jordan · راعية [38:45]:

بالرعي وكيف آلية إنه يكون منتج إقتصادي من خلال الصوف الألبان الأجبان إللي بنطلعها من هاي النتائج.


Jordan · Interpreter [38:58]:

Groups. And eh we encourage them also to make benefits from eh from eh grazing through being pastoralist more than the usual products. Eh and we also encourage them to use more products for for a long time. For example, the wool and hair of the animals was not used. And now we encourage the youth to make use of this as a profitable product.


Jordan · راعية [39:30]:

وإضافة لذلك كمان أنه لأول مرة بنشارك شباب من منطقتنا في الدول برة. على أساس إنهم بيكون إلهم معرفة بمدارس الرعوية الموجودة في كيرغستان أو في منغوليا.


Jordan · Interpreter [39:51]:

Exposed to other external knowledge through sending them to pastoralist schools in different countries, like in Mongolia and other countries. Thank you so


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [40:06]:

Much. Thank you. Any other responses


Speaker 33 [40:10]:

Questions?

My question is, how do you deal with technology now? Um AI and then migration because most youth don't want to do the back breaking jobs. So, do you have a contingency plan for the youth? Thank you.


India · Conservationist and documentary filmmaker · Dava Sangpo Bhutia [40:43]:

Uh uh okay. So like we are like very remote. Uh I think like this kind of like modernization like haven't reached our village till now. We are in our region. Yeah, but it's difficult to work with youth because like you said, youth want some modern facilities and they want to go to cities for a better job and better option, you know, because like youth like me, we think that it's very difficult to be in the mountain without network and I mean, in today, then, I mean, today, in today era, so it's very difficult. But yeah, yeah, it's quite difficult. I think it's difficult. It's it's a big challenge everywhere that we are facing. Like like, like she said, like, we, we are also trying to do something so that we can, uh, bring back our youth or keep the youth, uh, in the village, uh, but, uh, since we started our project, so, uh, it's been like, we are trying we are like being able to bring back some of the youth and they are now into pasturally. So, it's more like I think a more to give like identity and all. So yeah, thank you for that.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [42:07]:

I would also quickly respond that I'm not sure if we have a contingency plan, but in December, we are going to do a masterclass to transfer knowledge from the elders to the village youth. And this is also the time when some of them come back from schools and colleges or jobs. And for example, connected to our food practices, there's only one elder left in the village who was also speaking in the film, who knows how to make the tholong. It's a wooden equipment that is used for churning milk and butter from yak milk. And he's the only one who knows how to make it. So also by he really wants to teach and there are some carpenters who want to learn that, who are youth. So there are a number of things that we're planning for that masterclass. I'm going to hand it to you and then


Speaker 36 [42:53]:

To you, sir.


Kenya · Pastoralist · Steven [42:58]:

Okay thank you so much. Steven is my name from Kenya. A pastoralist I keep Camels, Gods, and sheep. And I watching that film, you know, it reminded me of the same reality that we live where I come from.


Speaker 38 [43:17]:

Because I'm glad

To hear you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [43:18]:

Can you hold it closer hard to hear you.


Kenya · Pastoralist · Steven [43:20]:

Is it?

So I'm saying that watching that film reminded me of the reality I live in in my country because a lot of things have been sold to us as progress. You know, education, food, you know, and all these things that have been sold to us as progress. And that pastoralism is backwardness. So I is grappled with that issue. Uh even you know our foods are inferior and all these kind of things. That is something and then we have an education system that has portrayed pastoralism as a weaker system. Even just I struggled when I was in high school from two. That is when I decided I think I need to go into that space. Was that the definition of what a pastoralist is in the school book I could remember, I can't recall it, you know, about close to 20 years now. That pastoralists are people who wander from one place to another in search of water and pasture. That is the definition in the book. So when the teacher taught us that and wrote that and she was not a pastoralist. I raised my hand and said we don't wonder one. It's not wandering. And number two we, it's not a must that we go from one, a place where there's no pasture, to a place where there's pasture. Because I could recall my father taking us from a place there was plenty of pasture. And it was raining. to open grasslands where there was less pasture. So that definition itself was wrong. So I went to university. After university, worked a little bit. Of course, everyone wants to move into urban centers and all these kind of things. But realized if you continue that way, our future as pastoralists is bleak. So I went back to my community. Had my father's heart of camels. and then purchased a few from my little meager salary then. And you know, started forming a good herd of camels and goats within the village. And so at least for me, because then we did not have an organization. I was not running an organization then. But that was a way, a model way of me showing them that even if I went to the university, you know, all that, all these things that every everyone is telling you is progress. I am here with you within the economy. Just like my father's date. So now I have and you know I have this conversation with children in school. I go to school, have this conversation, and you hear children saying, I want to go to the university, but I also want to keep my camels. And the other thing is that the value of it, I am still now running an organization and all these kind of things. People think I have money. But my cousin, who never went to school, who I could remember very well in 1998, my uncle, my maternal uncle, gave both of us a camel, a female camel. I sold mine in 2000 and 7 to go to school. You know, a few of them of that offsprings of that camel. And my cousin today, in the village, who never went to school in 1998, and now affords to pay the school fees for his children easily than I can do, because one camel in my village goes for about in you know it's it's about $1,000 or slightly less than that. And he's able to pay school fees for the whole year for his children. I could hardly get that you know in in a moment. So people also seeing the value of keeping livestock, not only the social part of it, but also the economical sense, and that also attracts young people, because what what essence is it, you know, to to move to an urban center and be a neighborer, hitting metals and all these things. Well, you can keep cameras in there, you know, or even goats with the five heads, you know, five gods in a year, you have about 15. You know, you can't get such a return on investment on any other investment. So pastoralism is actually an investment that we shall encourage our youth to take it. Thank you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [47:41]:

Thank you so much for those sharing your reflections and experiences. Are there any more? Okay. Mhm.


Jordan · Interpreter [47:48]:

Thank you so much.


Uganda [47:49]:

Uh love papayas. I come from Uganda. quite an interesting story from my friend. Of course, the education system in Kenya and also in Uganda is the same. We are told pastoralism is a bad practice. It's ah is not clean like it's a dirty job. So we we get trained to think that going to the office is the best job. Not in the field. So ah how to keep the young people how they are getting engaged back to pastoralism. Is that we keep to maintain the market price for the animals. So the youth see cow as the highly costly ah products to sell. They can get you money very fast than crops. Because with crops you have to wait for a long time to to get the money. For now the they see the cow, the the cattle as the most important thing that can give you big money. In the shortest time. So those who go to the city, they they become market linkage. for those in the village. So they would call and say there is a someone who needs a supply of cattle. So they are like middlemen. In so they they link you to the market in the city. They come and buy the cattle and the goats from the village. Then they take to the city. They become more of business people. Then there are those ones of our we keep them on cultural festival. So annually we organize cultural festival. Celebrating our livestock and the food systems. So the young people from the city. They bring people from the city to go and celebrate with us the the culture. And so they keep being in touch. So those who succeed in terms of getting jobs like me and others in the city will start pastoralism in the city. We buy goats and keep in the oil fence. And feed from there and move around with the so it so it's about evolving. And then those who hedge up they go back to start pastoralism again in the village, in the rural area. So because you cannot do a lot of big number of animals in the city, you have to go back to the rural to do grazing of big number of animals. When you age up, you use your pension and invest it back in pastoralism. That's what's happening in my community. My father was working then he invested his money back in pastoralism.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [50:31]:

Thank you.


Jordan · Interpreter [50:42]:

Thank you. I'm now talking about from Thank you. It's not is that okay now?


Speaker 46 [50:56]:

It's okay.


Jordan · Interpreter [50:58]:

I think the the young people they want and they deserve a better life. And we need to make sure that in their rural areas, in the in the rangeland, in their territories where they live, we encourage them and support them to have this better life. And it should be based on the natural resources that available, not only the natural resources, I mean the the resources, including natural and cultural resources that they have. We have to we should have learned from the pandemic. When we couldn't go outside like my friend just mentioned, we should be ready when we cannot have supplies from outside. Mhm. At the pandemic, even if you have money, at the moment, you couldn't buy anything, you know? So, we need to be need to have uh led from that uh problem or the pandemic. And of course, if I mention my region, I've come from Jordan, you know, Gaza, Syria, Iraq and all these wars, the people are affected and most of most of the time, like in in Gaza, they are in a siege until now. Okay? So people, they should learn how to make use of the resources that they have and build on that. And this apply for for the youth at this in this case. Um in Jordan for example we have different um different uh communities learn to do ecotourism. Hm. But again with the pandemic, we have learned this is not really sustainable way. So we need, we need to be, for example, some of the communities like my sisters community here. They were like too much in tourism to the extent that most of them they don't have livestock anymore. Now she has an initiative to encourage because we have a problem with tourism now, because of the war in Iran and of course in Gaza and all that. And no tourists are coming to the to the region. So she now encouraged them by like from the cooperative, they do grants like something like $700 to the people to buy life livestock and to start recovering this way of life. Imagine this is in Jordan in a remote area in Jordan. We should be careful that don't depend on tourism Don't depend on the the tourists are supplier. They come from outside. Think that you need to have a sovereignty over your food. And to make sure that you can live without being dependent on the others. Thank you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [54:01]:

Thank you so much.


Somalia · Teacher [54:09]:

Anyone behind? Sorry. Yeah. Okay, let me come first. Ah thank you. And thank you for the film that you have shown. Ah and thank you even for your standing in front of us for long time. Ah I wouldn't plan to speak today but these two guys, the guy from Kenya and the guy from Uganda make me to talk. Even I was not planning to come today this event. But when I saw in the list of the event is as a pastoralist, it pushes me to come and I saw myself, I'm sitting here and watching. So, this is something very attractive. I'm a pastor pastoralist currently. And living also in the urban areas. I'm actually from Somalia. Sorry I forget to mention that. We are most of pastoralist is are living from Kenya, the border, also Uganda, it's another border. So, these three countries are border countries, so we have a lot of pastoralists. Ah, I don't want to say much. But I want to shorten. I want to mention one example, good example. We remember all what we have taught in the classes. So we are very familiar and we are very similar. as your classes and many other countries. Now, we realized the important of the pastoralist as we were already in the cities and part of us already still living in the rural areas. So what we have started, for example, I'm a teacher living in the urban area and also working with the government and also grown in the rural area as a pastoralist is still living that part of that life. For the recent years, people usually like to buy iPhone. I think some of you had now and already they have bought iPhone. For example, I'm a teacher. I usually teach my students. Instead of buying iPhone, you must buy one cow or one camel. So your camel after two years or three years will be two, four, or three. But your iPhone after two years will be scratched and will be valueless. Right? So that is what we usually use as an example. So we mean that as a teacher, we mean that to elevate or to reduce the poverty level that people are always living. So you know, now, considering this climate change, so there is a source of economy going back and using your mind and and also taking advantage. The cost that you are buying for something better to invest somewhere else so that after two years or three years, you can become much better. Thank you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [57:12]:

Thank you so much. We have a social media grant for which we were actually planning to buy two iPhones to document the knowledge. But maybe, Wagaki, can we buy two yaks instead of the two phones.


Mongolia · Bill Oksana [57:30]:

Hello? Hi, my name is Bill Oksana. I'm a Mongolian. I'm not a pastoralist myself. Maybe but but because of the topic because of hearing everybody speak here I just wanted to share a little bit I do have an iPhone unfortunately. Yeah no my my you know my grandpa's. grandparents were pastoralists. My parents were seasonal pastoralists, mostly because not traditional nomadic pastoralists, but they were a part of the socialist program here. Everybody had to either do agricultural work or nomadic pastoralism, like as part of your high school, you know, education, really. And a big part of the discussion at that time was, you know, oh, your forcing people to work and everything. But I think at the same time, you know, I just wanted to humbly propose maybe a question for for the panel and maybe the rest of the folk here who are pistolists. What does it mean to be a pastoralist in today's time? I think it's not enough to propose pastoralism as a viable economic, just just as a way of sustenance, or I think maybe what it means to engage with you today is to kind of work in this sort of meaning making space, perhaps. We live during a time of genocide. We live during a time of great jadedness when it comes to our youth, I think, today. But I think no matter pastoralism today or pastoralism generally, or living having this different relationship to our material world could be an avenue for our youth to not just engage with pastoralism, but but maybe engage in imagining a better kind of life on you know, on the world. And maybe maybe sometimes, you know, a while I 100%, you know, empathize with this idea to connect with what's been lost, what has been from the past, maybe maybe we have to give ownership. And, you know, we maybe have to have the onus on the youth to kind of create a new sort of sense of identity of what it means to be pastoralist today. just like how my my parents had to engage with a completely different mode of production of pistolism than than their parents and their parents. And maybe that's what it means for some sort of generational, passing of knowledge. It's not just retention. Maybe it's it's it's building on top of it. Maybe it's transmuting it to to a new subjectivity maybe. Thank you. Sorry.


India · Conservationist and documentary filmmaker · Dava Sangpo Bhutia [1:00:14]:

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, okay. So yeah, I think it's very difficult in today's time like I said before, like for like youth like us, it's very difficult because because even my friends, I think they are in city and I don't know like people say they are having a good life, you know, you don't have to do hard work, and you have good network, you have good transportation and all, but the the the herder like me who are in the mountains. We don't have that kind of facilities. So that way I think the youth are facing I mean lots of problem. But as a as a pastoralist myself, so I don't feel that much because I just want to give an example that I think during COVID pandemic, I think the whole world was suffering at that time. My my elder brother, he he works in city, so he was there. So, like, he was kind of isolated in one room. He said that he can't go out, not even in the room. But in my like in my place, in my region, like we didn't knew that there was a COVID, such like things such thing was happening, you know, in the world. Uh, like, they were suffering, like, they didn't had food to eat, no vegetables, this thing, you know, but, uh, we didn't had that kind of it was really normal. We were going here and there. We could go to mountain. We were with Yak. So we don't feel that. So just I also want to ask that kind of question to the rest of the world, like, which is better, you know? Like, which life is better? So, like, which life you say that better, you know? The the city life with lots of tension and all. We don't have that kind of tensions in the mountain. We just worry that, okay, our yacht didn't come, so that kind of worry, you know, we don't have we don't have to worry about earning. We don't have to worry about buying a car or having some good I mean good things and all. So we don't have that. And also I don't I feel like like in the mountains we don't have that border kind of thing. We are close to Nepal, so we share border with Nepal. And so our herds that the yaks goes to Nepal and graze, and so we just enter to Nepal and bring our yak back. and we have good relationship with Nepal and all. So so in the rest of the places, I see that there's a border. You can't go that side, this side. We don't have that. So I think that way so we are, I think, we are very much lucky to be a pastoralist today. Like for me, it's like that, you know? And yeah, I feel proud of myself and that's what I'm telling my youth that you should come back because I think the whole world is facing problem. This war happened, this happened, that happened, this, you know, people are dying and all but we don't have that. So, we don't care about that also. We have our own world. So that's what festivalists now I think. Thank you.


Speaker 53 [1:03:37]:

Perhaps if I could intervene. I think this is a very interesting discussion for me. I'm not from a pastoral community. I'm from a farming community. But I think the challenges are not different, right? Because we also had our foods that we don't eat anymore. But I think that the issue I see is exactly what he said. Times evolve, technologies evolve, societies evolve. I think the question is and it's probably what I've chosen for me and my family because I come from a family that's mixed cultures. What we've decided to do is to take the best of both cultures and make it part of our family, and leave the worst of both cultures, because there is no perfect culture. And maybe it's the same thing to think every society evolves well by bringing innovation into society, because then you also survive. Because if you don't, in a sense, adapt, you kind of die out, because people will live. So maybe the challenge for the YAK community is how do you integrate that new technology? You have Starlink today, for instance. So the YAK youth can actually get internet, very good internet, if you have a connection to Starlink. Starlink. Starlink. The Elon Musk thing, it provides you access to areas where you cannot actually access it. This is what a lot of the rural communities in Kenya have. I'm just giving that as an example. I'm not saying it's the way to go. But what I'm saying is find alternative alternatives that help your community to evolve positively so that young people are actually innovating. So the food that you have is going to last as long as you're innovating and other people are consuming it. But if it's just your community, at some point, because food is a taste, you evolve with it. If people don't evolve with that, it still dies. So you have to think about how do you innovate to keep your culture and your system alive? How do we innovate to keep our cultures and systems alive. That, for me, adapting and taking some things from outside and learning and using them to keep your culture or your system going, I think, is what innovation is about. I don't think there's any right or wrong way. I just think is how do you keep going? That's my thought.


Kenya · Pastoralist · Steven [1:06:01]:

Yeah, thank you for that. And maybe a question also to both the audience and everyone. You know, one of the issues people see as bad within pastoralism is pastoral mobility movement, you know. Because pastoralists like him move from India to Nepal and movement and people see that as a problem. While we move from one city to another seeking for jobs, you see you get a job that makes you sit on a desk the whole day. You get obese. You get some healthy problems, health problems. Then you start running. Everyone now has a smartwatch to count steps You're counting your steps the whole day. You see you didn't get it to 10,000. So you have to walk again in the evening after work. So you hit your daily target of 20,000 steps. A pastoralist has no such problems. Because at the end of the day, they walk 17 kilometers, 18 kilometers, 15 kilometers, and stay healthy. So which life should we choose? Is it the one that gives us the health that we need? But don't like she says, you know, societies need to progress comes with innovation and, you know, with innovative technologies and all these things. I am a computer scientist by profession. I am a software engineer by that. So even as we do all these things, yes, we can adapt, we can integrate new technologies and all these things into pastoralism. Who said that pastoralism has to be the old way, you know, that the the every society evolved. The reason why we have pastoralists today is because they adapted to the society as it changes. The only thing that we should protect and guard is innovation that moves us out of you know because when society adapts it has to adapt within its internal mechanism. And also adapt at its own pace. First kind of adaptation, you know, you know external kind of adaptation, you are forced into things that were not yours, then we lose. But if we adopt from within our systems and allow our systems to let us adopt. And that that then will because come on, the world is the place in which the world is running, we will probably hit a dead end. You know, the extractive nature of our economy. You know, we've extracted, we've sold. Uh now we are selling carbon. I think probably next is oxygen and then maybe I don't know. We've commodified everything. We have commodified every bit of our lives. And that becomes a running marathon that never ends. You know, we have a target that is moving. We run. We want to adapt. So you run and then the target moves. We run, we will be running, I don't know until when. So I think it's time also the world takes a pause, takes talk take of what is happening, and probably see how we can adapt better. Thank you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [1:09:04]:

Thank you for that answer. And I just want to respond to both Wagaki and you. I totally agree, I think the youth will adapt and innovate with time and in time. But from my understanding, what we're really trying to do is also instill this identity and values. And firstly, make people realize the amount of dependency they have on external subsidies, governments, and continuously being pressured into do something that is not their own ideas, to which now they also think is progress. So just one thing that one of the village elders says is that humans and forests are dependent on each other to even breathe. And I think this is knowledge that no sort of innovation can give you. So we are leaning on traditional knowledge, but I think hopefully with time with those values, we can innovate and adapt. So it's not just that we rely on forests to breed, but forests also depend on us. And this idea of humans as nature is something that constantly needs to be reminded, because tech technology will catch up anyway. But once the elders are gone, all the knowledge will be lost.

You want to say something


Speaker 56 [1:10:20]:

No


Jordan · Interpreter [1:10:29]:

Thank you. I'm trying to respond to the gentleman saying I think first of all like my sister already said that we need to think of our strength and what we have and to be innovative. And the other thing, not all the people who live in the city are rich and enjoying life. You know? Mm like many many people live in the city but they live um harder lifeline the pastoralist. So we need to think of that. We don't need to compare a pastel with a high tech people who gain like thousands of dollars. We can think of the middle class or lower class in the city. We cannot all be those who can gain thousands of of dollars per month as a salary. Let us compare ourselves with the others. So I think, like my brothers already said, Um if you go for a for a job like some some people they work at 12 hours a day. Apostolist doesn't need to do 12 hours. He can decide when to go to work and when not. You know? But when who works for a factory, he has to start at certain hour and to leave a certain hour. A pastor doesn't need to do that. Only when the the lapisto is hung hungry, he needs to go. And when they are okay, he can come back. So again, let us think of of the realities. What is good in our realities? And what are the strengths that we have? and what we can progress from inside not from outside. Thank you.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [1:12:22]:

Any last reflections or questions otherwise we are happy to wrap up.


Jordan · راعية [1:12:33]:

شغلة مهمة بتربية المواشي. يعني إحنا بالنسبة إلنا بنشعر إنها تجلب إلنا السعادة. هاي السعادة صعب إنك تلاقيها بأي مكان. فنحن يعني ممكن إنه الإبل والأغنام نتحدث معها، نشكي لها همومنا، تسمعنا، وبنحس أنه في علاقة كبيرة بيننا وبينها.


Jordan · Interpreter [1:12:59]:

As pastoralists, we have a relation with our livestock. We feel happy because of their presence with us. We talk to them. We talk to the camel. We talk to the sheep and we enjoy that and this makes, makes, makes us happier.


Jordan · راعية [1:13:25]:

أفضل هدية بتهديها للجدة أو للأم هي قطيع من الأغنام تتسلى فيهم، تحكي معاهم، فبتجد السعادة ما بتحس بالفراغ أبدا في هذا المجال.


Jordan · Interpreter [1:13:38]:

When you get old and you have grandchildren and all your sons and daughters started their new life away from you, then the best gift is is of livestock, either sheep or a goat to give شكرا.


India · Conservationist and documentary filmmaker · Dava Sangpo Bhutia [1:14:07]:

Okay. Thank you so much. Yeah. I just like to tell her that that's what I think she feels. I think what she said you know, that, yeah, I can connect because, yeah, we do talk with the animals. Similar like, she talks with sheep and goat. Yeah, we talk with yaks, you know, it's like family tour. So, sometimes when we are alone at the hut, like with the yaks, so we don't feel anything, you know, we don't feel alone. So we feel like someone is there and we can talk like that. So, yeah, we feel that sense of I mean connected as a family. Yeah. So we have that. So and also like what she said is like yeah you can give yak to the younger generation, and yeah, they can carry. That's, I think, best gift we can give, because even my even my father once gave me one female yak. And now I have like 8 or 10 yaks. Now it's getting bigger and bigger. Now one day I'll have a heart on my own. So yeah, that's the best gift. Thank you so much for that.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [1:15:22]:

Okay, one yes.


Mongolia [1:15:36]:

Good evening, everyone. I really enjoyed the documentary you prepared. Thank you for coming and representing our region. And I would like to talk about is more personal. I'm not a herder myself, but my grandparents were very good herders. But my but I sometimes feel a little sad that I'm not continuing the way of life they once lived. There are still many young people of my generation who live in the countryside. in Mongolia. But there are many problems who live in the countryside, hurt livestock, help their parents, and continue to nomadic ways way of life. However, there are so many challenges. One of these challenges is that when young people live very far from cities, it becomes more difficult for them to keep up with the opportunities and developments of modern society, even if they require professional training or obtain a degree. It's chosen in field. at the same time, I understand that preserving the traditional nomadic way of life is extremely important. Another issue I would like to raise is the gender imbalance among young people living and herding livestock in rural Mongolia. In many families, daughters are sent to cities to receive an education and pursue better opportunities, while sons remain in the countryside to take care of their livestock and help their parents. As a result, some young men in rural areas may have fewer opportunities to resile in education or find a wife and start a family. And I have one question. How is climate change affecting food security in your country? For example, how is it affecting agriculture production and crop yields? Thank you.


India · Conservationist and documentary filmmaker · Dava Sangpo Bhutia [1:17:56]:

Thank you so much for that. Yeah. Climate change, I think, yeah, it's the main I mean, it's the main issue all over the world, I guess. So we feel that we also feel that the climate change has affected us. Like my like we like like it's like this you know like the untimely snowfall and untimely rainfall. Those kind of those kind of untimely, I mean, seasonal change are causing lots of problem to the herders because we have a particular time to go to a particular particular area. So because of the season change and when there is no proper grass and proper photo, then we can't move our herds at that time. So that is one thing. And agriculture also I think it's not growing like before. It's not timely. It's very like it's not happening in time. And we see lots of I mean, we see lots of new species of birds coming, and it's a new species of birds. Recently, I heard that in my village, like lots of new species of birds, they are damaging crops. I think it's also like it's becoming warmer and we don't have a timely snowfall also. Because in my village it used to snow every winter but now it's not snowing. So it's really affecting us also. And it's affecting our food, culture, everything. It's not on time. Everything is like on time now.


Moderator · Radhika Gupta [1:19:46]:

Are there any last questions or reflections? Okay, we're going to wrap up and I really want to thank Dawa for being by my side. I'm so incredibly lucky to be working. with such a wonderful person. Thank you, Dava. Those who are interested to get a group photo with us, please join us here. No pressure. Group 4, Group 4,