Nordic Council of Ministers: Turning Push-Back into Progress (CSW69 Side Event)

All right, everyone. You have sure been quiet for more than five minutes. I'm so impressed. But now finally, the time is 11:30, and you're in for a treat. I would like to give you all a warm welcome and say a warm welcome because you're all dear friends and colleagues. This event here is hosted by the government of Finland. as presidency for the Nordic Council of Ministers. And my name is Karen Ellemann, and I'm the Secretary General of the Nordic Council of Ministers. And the Nordic Council of Ministers is the official intergovernmental cooperation body of the Nordic governments. And through the Nordic Corporation, we collaborate on shared challenges and also opportunities, and we promote effective solutions, policy solutions. Among other things, we work on sustainability, we work on culture, we work on economic development, and, of course, gender equality. And it is really a great pleasure for me to be moderating what I am really sure will be a very great panel conversation on how we can turn the pushback against gender equality and equal rights into progress. For 50 years, the Nordic countries have been united in one shared vision: to make sure that gender equality prevails in all areas of our societies, and also to ensure that every individual is free to pursue their dreams. However, Over the recent years, gender equality and the equal rights of women and girls have become increasingly politicized issues. And in many places, these, I would say, hard-won gains are being questioned and even actively rolled back. The Nordic governments as a whole, they are deeply concerned with the growing regression and the pushback against gender equality and equal rights, both globally and also within our Nordic region. In November last year, I met with all the Nordic ministers of gender equality in Stockholm, capital of Sweden, and there, all the ministers, they agreed that now is the time to stand up for gender equality, to defend advancements already made, and to never go back, to keep pushing for progress. And the ministers furthermore reiterated their commitment to the international frameworks that promote gender equality, and they called for a united effort to counteract this pushback. So this joint effort has been titled "The Pushing for Progress". You see it there on the banner. So I assume that many of you in this packed room, that you are gender equality experts, specialists, and activists. And let me begin by saying I salute you all for all the work that you are doing. And maybe, maybe many of you might also have felt in the recent years that progress seems more and more difficult to achieve. And where we used to advocate for more ambitious gender equality policy, we now have to think about consolidating what we have already. That is just to make sure that we will not be going back. But what exactly does the pushback look like, and how do we counter it and continue the progress? Yesterday, all the ministers of Nordic, all the ministers from the Nordic countries, ministers of gender equality, they were gathered in the ECOSOC chamber. a little more spacious than this one, but also a very crowded room. And they were there in the panel discussing both the current challenges and also the opportunities to advance gender equality. And today, we have gathered a panel of experts to elaborate on this topic and hopefully make sure that we all get a bit wiser and at least get some inspiration from you on strategies to turn the tide and also to mobilize for gender equality and for progress. But before I introduce this excellent panel, it's also my great pleasure to give the floor to the State Secretary, to the Finnish Minister for Social Security, Laura Ristinen. Laura, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Karen, and thank you all of you for coming here. It's incredible to have a room this full. We have to remember next year when we try to reserve the spaces that we have to get the biggest chambers for the Nordic events. But yes, I hope that we don't run out of air here, and if we do, then someone maybe we can keep the door a bit open. But as you already said, 30 years after the adoption of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action, we are witnessing an appalling backlash against various hard-won gender equality advances. The Secretary-General, Antonio Guterres, said yesterday that the patriarchy is back and is back with a vengeance. And that is something that we are dealing with now, but we also have the antidote, as the Secretary General said, and the antidote is action, and that's what we are doing here today. The serious backlash, it affects everyone, not just women and girls, it affects the societies as a whole. It negatively affects the core fabric of our democracies, our economies, and the stability of our societies. and also the attainment of the Sustainable Development Goals. Despite the high rate of gender equality in Finland and the Nordic region, we are also seeing growing anti-gender movements in our region. This is something that we might have thought before that we were immune to, but we definitely are not. But we should not accept this. Instead, We will continue to work to advance the rights of women and girls and sexual and gender minorities. Gender equality is a human right, and it's not an ideology in itself. On the national level, I am proud that we in Finland have prohibited, for instance, mediation in criminal cases of violence in close relationships, reformed the sexual offense provisions of the Finnish criminal code, explicitly criminalized the act of committing female genital mutilation, and included forced marriage into the scope of the human trafficking provision. And we are now seeing the first results coming in of the reform of our parental leave system that indicates that fathers are taking nearly twice as many paternity leave days than they were before the reform. Of course, we still have a long way to go in order to achieve parity in that sense, but I think 20% that the fathers are doing now is a good beginning. So in Finland, we have been able to make progress on gender equality and economic success through something we call the economy of well-being. The balance between economic growth and social progress is fundamental. Investing in gender and social equality is beneficial for people, but also for productivity, economic sustainability, and societal stability. But, dear friends, much also remains to be done. There is opposition against LGBTIQ rights, human rights defenders are harassed online, domestic violence remains a serious problem in Finland, and our gender pay gap must be decreased. On a global level, Finland will continue to be an active counterforce against actors seeking to undermine gender equality. This year, again, Finland will be awarding the International Gender Equality Prize for the fifth time now. The award, which is amounting to 300,000 euros, is given to an individual or an organization that has made a significant contribution to advancing gender equality on a global scale. We invite everyone even in this room, to nominate deserving candidates during the application period starting this March. I think we had leaflets yesterday at the ministerial panel, and if you want to know how to nominate someone or an organization, please be in touch. I believe that in these challenging times, the prize holds even a greater significance. Karen also already told about the Nordic ministers' meeting last November. When we really decided to join forces, the Nordic ministers responsible for gender equality and LGBTI signed a joint declaration in Stockholm in which the promise was made to never go back. We won't go back. Instead, with the joint Nordic effort, the Nordic governments will reinforce their commitment to defending advancements already made on gender equality and equal rights for LGBTI people, while pushing even further for continued progress. The Nordic region is calling for a renewed global commitment to protect gender equality and equal rights for all. I think this is the action that the Secretary General was talking about yesterday. We are already taking some, and of course we are open to suggestions for more action, and I think we will get them from this session. So we call on all of you. who are pushing for progress to join us to build an even stronger coalition for gender equality and equal rights for all. I hope we can start building alliances already here today. I thank you, and I look forward to our panel. We have excellent speakers here today.

Thank you so much, Laura, for your introducing words and your speech, and thank you so much for a very strong presidency in the Nordic Council of Ministers. Now it's time to introduce all of you sitting here. You are our expert panelists. And let me start with you, Nelly Munyasya. You're the Executive Director for Reproductive Health Network in Kenya. Nelly. And next to Nelly, we have Irina Trakim. You're the co-founder of the Center Women's Perspectives in Ukraine. Next to you is Silvia Modyk. You are the Finnish delegation member and you are chair of the National Council of Women of Finland. And I'm not running through the whole CV, but Sylvia is also a member of the European Parliament.

Was.

Was. And then finally, Johanna Lilja, you are part of the Swedish delegation and you are the strategic advisor at ACT Church of Sweden. Welcome. So. Allow me to start with you, Nelly. Please tell us all how your organization works for gender equality and women's sexual and reproductive health and rights, and in what way you are experiencing, if you are, experiencing pushback in your work. Nelly.

Thank you so much. What an honor to be here today and to be part of this amazing panel. And just thinking that I'm the only one that comes from the global south, so it's such an honor to be able to be speaking on behalf of a lot of thousands of women from back in Africa. So I work for Reproductive Health Network Kenya, which is a network of healthcare providers, 95% mid-level providers, working to ensure that women and girls in their diversities have access to comprehensive sexual reproductive health information and services, more importantly, access to safe abortion services within the constitution of Kenya. So that clearly tells you what is the work we're doing around gender equality. A lot of our providers are women, and in Kenya, healthcare providers who are women, nurses, a lot of times do not show up or do not get into leadership position. I'm a nurse myself, and I'm using myself as an example to break the barriers, to change the narrative, ensure that nurses and midwives can take up leadership role. And that was my agenda number one. That's what we are doing, and I'm here to show that. Number two, we serve vulnerable women and girls from hard-to-reach areas in our communities. And so we are ensuring And, you know, women come with a lot of issues. There's the social cultural barriers, the social norms, the poverty indicators, you know, where they are not even able to afford a dollar a day. So think about them even accessing. Think about the accessing health care when they’re pregnant, before they even – when during pregnancy, they’re not even able to access antenatal care. And so as RH&K, we are working to ensure that we are taking the facilities closer to them and women are able to access quality, comprehensive SRH services. And this includes access to safe abortion services, safe motherhood for those who carry pregnancy to term, and postnatally still access comprehensive care. and STI treatment, and also ensure that they have access to contraceptives, and they have the power to choose when and with whom they want, when they want to have babies. And they also have the power to choose how they want to access these services. So RH&K is leading in providing different innovative pathways to accessing healthcare, especially sexual and reproductive health and services. And this we are doing through advancing digital and technology and self-care, where women are able to access sexual reproductive health services from the comfort of their homes. At the workplace in Kenya – and we just heard about the pay gap – we have women that are providing services that are employed and the wage bill cannot be compared to their counterparts. So RH&K is leading a project where we are mainstreaming gender equity at workplace, and we are ensuring that labor laws is effected, but most importantly, we are looking at workplace policies and ensuring that SRHR is mainstreamed and ensuring that women, when they get pregnant, they can go on maternity leave and they can still get their monthly pay. When women miss work because of painful menses, they are not going to miss their salaries. They will get their daily wage because it is natural. It’s not that they wake up and say, we are not going to work. It happens. They are human beings. And these are things that men might never understand. It only takes you walking into that shoe of the woman for you to understand the challenges that they go through. And you can imagine if in other European countries that happen. Think about this woman in Africa who does not have the power because of patriarchy, who husband is the one that determines when they can even go to hospital. So really, we are trying to break those barriers and make sure that women have the power and women are empowered and they're able to hold even the government accountable. How are we experiencing? Yes, exactly.

Is that work getting easier? Is that work getting easier or what?

It is definitely not easier. Anti-rights groups have found their way in the global south, and they found a field day. Why? Because we are religious by nature. We are conservative by nature. And so it's easy for them to quickly push and get into our systems. How are they showing up? We are seeing them sit in the Ministry of Health, technical working groups, and task force where critical decisions are made about women. We are seeing them influence policy, and this is because they are well-funded, well-organized, and quite strategic. Think about us. If we wanted to support government, for example, we do not have the freedom of those resources, because our funding a lot of times is restricted. It's activity-based. But they have pool of resources that it's easy for them to go to government, sit in the ministry, and push for a policy. We have seen them even push their own people to be part of the judiciary, and we know that is where decisions Today, if a healthcare provider has been arrested for providing safe abortion services, and we have an anti-right person there, then what is going to happen? They're going to be jailed. If an LGBTQI person is arrested because our laws are still restrictive, and we have a sympathizer or an anti-right ally, what happens? They will be jailed. So that is how we are also seeing them show up. We are seeing them create a lot of disinformation and create fear among the public. And this then leaves women with no, you know, with a lot of stigma and not being bold enough to access services, services as basic as access to contraceptives, you know, leave alone access to safe abortion services. We are talking about contraceptives where they think adolescent and youth do not have the right to access the contraceptives. Then finally, of course, we see them wake up and put up billboards. In Kenya, putting up a billboard needs money. It's just not any easy. But they will wake up and put up several billboards trying to show how abortion is murder and talk about crisis centers and all that. So a lot of disinformation being peddled by the anti-rights groups and speaking to the emotions, to the values, to the religion of people because they know through that, then they are able to reach out to a lot of people. I'll stop there because I can talk to you for.

Thank you. Thank you. Joanna, I will turn to you because your organization is working with aid and development in several regions around the world. And also from your perspective, how has the situation changed for gender equality and SRHR work? And in what way does this pushback create challenges, if so?

Yes, first of all, I would like to thank the Nordic Council of Ministers for organizing this really important event at this critical point in time. I think this is such an important thing. Action2Sweden is a faith-based actor working with both secular and faith-based organization all around the world. in international development operation and humanitarian action. And we're an integrated of Church of Sweden. We're part of ACT Alliance, the Lutheran World Federation, and the World Council of Churches. And our work is focused around six thematic areas, and two of those is gender justice and then SRHR. And due to our role as a faith-based actor, the work for gender justice is crucial. We all know, and Nelly already spoke about this, the power of religion in so many societies. So we feel that it's our responsibility to engage on these issues. And within this field of work, we work with everything from gender-based violence, transformative masculinities, SRHR, including comprehensive sexuality education, and LGBTIQ persons' rights and inclusion. The global pushback – I mean, obviously, everyone sees this – with growing conservatism and rollback on human rights is really affecting all policy spaces. And I just want to start with talking about that, because that’s in one – over the last few years, we have seen how religion has really become an argument that is being used, religion and tradition and religion and culture, in these spaces. And it's used in a way to push back on progress against gender equality and SRHR, and we find that very worrying. We also see, and I think many will speak to this as well, that women's rights organizations and women human rights defenders and the LGBTQ community is increasingly targeted around the world. And this also includes faith-based actors working for gender justice and equality. And quite often, religious feminists are getting caught between criticism within their own communities and also in the wider society. Lastly, I just want to say something on, i think it's clear for all of us that have been following the UN negotiations over the years. how rapidly changing political landscape really is affecting the ability to agree on new language. So I think many of us were quite relieved that the political declaration was adopted on Monday, but at the same time, i think also a lot of us felt really disappointed that we cannot have any language, for instance, on SRHR 30 years after the Beijing Platform for Action was taken.

Thank you. Irinya, I'll turn to you because your organization works with integrating a gender perspective into the efforts of both state actors and NGOs in Ukraine. And we know that conflict can increase already existing imbalances in a society and also have a profound impact So in what ways has this pushback manifested then in Ukraine?

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for big interest to this topic. We can see how it's important to take about those talking about those backlashes which we have in all our countries. And in Ukraine, in the some topics, especially gender equality, it's a privilege to talk on the national level. But then you come to the local level, it's become worse because people even don't understand what does it mean, gender. Sometimes it's in big manipulation. also in the churches, between the churches, and they also manipulate by traditional values. They also don’t understand and have the stereotype what is the gender equality means. And that is why we are in a big struggle, for example, on the local level to accept European Charter of Equality for Women and Men even in local life. And it’s not easy because you are faced all the time with those, I would say, unacknowledgment That is why we work with the many organization to provide literacy at least about that, to provide awareness. And I think that we should put a lot of efforts, continue to put a lot of efforts in this issue, because people just don’t aware. We were working with the teachers for last year, and 30 percent of them which coming to our training, they said that they was thinking only about LGBT community when we ask them We can invite them for gender issue trainings to have to know more about the gender approaches in their even life. But in national level, we have the strategy on gender equality in our education sphere. We have the national strategy of combating gaps in the salaries. So on the national level, on the top level, we have those understanding. But Ukraine is a big country, and then it's coming to the local authorities, it's It's really worse. And for example, we have 24 regions, and 23 of them are leading by men. It's because of the war, and men is – have more power. position or skills to protect or defend the country. It says like that, just one woman who are leading one of the region. And of course, we have faced a lot of problems, which we have with the full escalation by Russia, and we have a lot of women who are suffering from sexual violence connecting to the war, and but on Especially on the national level, we have even reparations who – which paid to men and women who are suffer from the sexual violence of the Russian soldiers. And it’s a good initiative, and Ukraine are leading the alliance of CR CV today in the world because we have the good steps taken. But then it’s come to the local level, it’s still very difficult to apply and to talk about the gender-based violence, because combatants coming back and we understand that domestic violence problem will be raising, and we understand that women will be more suffer. But it’s – you can’t talk about this on the civil servants on local level, because they are not aware, they don’t taking seriously those issues, and they don’t developing services. And I very agree with what Nelly says, that we don’t have services in villages. in the small communities for women in health caring, in contraception, and et cetera, et cetera, because the whole humanitarian aid, they concentrated in big cities and very slowly coming down to the small communities. And this is also the problem. And what we are trying to do is strengthening women’s lead organization, because they’re the main focal point in the communities to provide those services. And this is about the stability and institutionalization of providing services, because it’s very easy to come to the community and provide humanitarian aid and go back, you say that, okay, it’s enough. But then you serve and provided funding to Women’s League organization, it’s more sustainable, because Women’s League organization will be providing – it doesn’t depend donor will come or not. They will be trying to keep those issue. They will be strengthening their awareness about the gender equality, about the GBV, and they will be able to work with the local authorities concerning those issues. It’s very important to strengthen civil society organizations, especially women-led organizations, because they have more trust from women in the communities. They know very well the issues and problems which women face in the communities. So I think it’s very important. And of course, we need to relocate funds if you want to take in the focus on gender issues, and even on local – on the national level. And that’s what we ask all the time as women’s lead organization to our – to spoke – when we spoke to our donors and international organization, please push our government to take funds, to put funds on the gender equality, because if it will not have funds for this issue, it will be backlash, which we have right now in a lot of states. it is, a lot of countries. And I am very glad to be here because I know that Nordic countries is in the front of this issue, and we even on our education lectures, we argue to steps which you followed and taken in that time. So we are very looking for your strategies which you accept in your countries and have the possibility to talk about that also to our local authorities on different levels. Thank you. Thank you.

Sylvia, no surprise, I'm turning to you, because you, as I said in the beginning, you represent Finnish women and you're Chair of the National Council of Women of Finland. And it's also important to know how you find that trends, challenges and opportunities at the national level maybe connected also to the European level and then from there to the global level? And then, from your perspective, where do you see the biggest challenges to drive forward gender equality and equal rights for the time being?

That’s a really small question. Thank you, Karen. Let’s just solve this in this meeting. No, but thank you, important question. Thank you for having me, and thank you to my My co-panelists for your very valuable ideas. I'm born in 1976, in the beginning of the decade of women. I've been living my whole life in Finland, which is a welfare state, which has women's rights and equality enshrined in its basis. I’ve been lucky to live an era of progress. We have always been going forward. The esteemed Secretary of State here referred to our parental leave. We have a lot of things to do still, but it has – it’s always been more about how slow or how fast the progress is, not about the backlash. And now I’m 48, and now I have to fight so we don’t go back. so disheartening, and I realized that I have been naive in a way. I thought that these progresses cannot be taken away from us, but again, we find ourselves in this situation. When I went from the Finnish Parliament to the European Parliament, I felt I was like going back in time, because we are quite far in the Nordic countries with our gender equality and the understanding of the importance to everyone, whereas then in the European Parliament, it is much more male, and it's much more conservative. And there, the problems really became visible when you were starting to look at it from an European level, but the same thing is happening everywhere. It's the same thing globally, it's the same thing on the European level, as it is in our countries. We come maybe from a little bit different, like, situations into the battle. You are building now for the first time, you're fighting myths, you're fighting harmful conceptions of tradition, and you are in the most difficult situation, but still seeing that equality has to be worked for. So we are all in the same situation. I say that I think the most important thing at this moment is to give hope. We had in Finland last Saturday on the Women's Day, we had the first march, women's march ever in Finland, organized by our organization and two other extremely good women's organizations. We had 10,000 people coming to the streets. It was so empowering, I wasn't the only one crying, it was so empowering, I could see that we gave hope to people, we brought them together, we showed them that don't be, uh, because. When you start to think about all the problems we are now facing, you feel like your energy is being taken away from you. And there, people saw that, no, we have options, we have a way to go when we come together. And the power in that demonstration was that we were from all walks of life. It was women from all ages. It was women from all political affiliations. It was women from all different kind of organizations, and young women. Well, everybody is young to me at this age, but I mean, it was so empowering. And there I saw that For our umbrella organization that we are, our biggest, I think, mission is to give those spaces, be able to give space to the younger and whoever wants to act, to push for the space for them to come together and unite and move forward together. Did I answer all your question?

I think you did very well on that perspective from Finland to the Nordic European world level, but maybe also because being 10,000 people in the streets, I guess there were men participating as well. Were there any oppression, anyone who said, why are you doing this nonsense? I mean, where do you find and experience a pushback if you do so.

Misogyny is everywhere, and it’s become so blatant. It’s become so – it’s like they have mixed up being courageous with being just a misogynist, yeah. It’s like these days, you can – they feel like they can say anything. So of course, we have the biggest newspaper on the same day of the Women’s March, on Women’s Day, we had our biggest newspaper publish a – like an – how do you say when people write to the paper themselves, like an opinion piece. on, like, well, if there's a march like this, then we need a Women's Day for biological women. And they print this. So we need education and we need to point out what is misogyny and what is a relevant opinion to this discussion, because that everyone doesn't seem to see the difference. But also one point more, because you kind of come from politics and we've been together in the Nordic Council. We have the municipality level elections now in Finland coming up in a little bit more than a month. And we as an organization, we organized this meeting for the candidates from all parties, if you want to get help in your gender equality points, if you need, you know. And all of them had the same message. All parties are reporting the same thing. We cannot get young women to candidate anymore. And the reason is because they're afraid. They're saying that I'm not, i can't take this hate. I don't want this hate in my life. You know, I have my studies, I have my family, I have my life. I kind of, I would love to participate, but because of the hate and everything I'm fearing it will bring with it, I don't want to candidate. And this was the most common question from these candidates. There were 30, 40 candidates from all over our country, from all different parties, and they all were talking about the hate. They would say, what do I do when I encounter it? What are the things, how we can fight it. So, I mean, that is silencing us. And if women are silenced in that way, then everything is lost. So, I think on a political level at least, that is one thing that we all have to fight against.

So, having heard from all four of you, it's clear from each perspective, you have concrete experiences of a pushback here. And what I would like to maybe listen to you also now sharing, I mean, what kind of bold strategies do you deploy to address these challenges? And how do you then work concretely? For instance, Nelly, when you talk about that you see from your organization, from your perspective, you see experts at the ministry that are, you know, specifically working against the right to bodily autonomy, for instance. So maybe you could all contribute to this, what can be done and What kind of bold strategies are you planning or are you having?

Thank you so much, and I want to recognize the presence of someone that has mentored me, who is also a nurse, Dr. Monica. Dr. Monica Ogutu comes from Kenya. And she's one of the people that have made me bold and unapologetically. So what we do in Kenya is we are being intentional on being on the decision-making table. When opposition are there, we are also there as experts because we are trained healthcare providers. So we are not going there as religious people, we are not going there with emotions, but we are going there as experts with evidence. So we've worked with government, Ministry of Health, and we've seen a lot of progress. We've seen support. We've gotten to a point where the ministry is now the one taking the backlash from the opposition, and they allow us to do the work, and they tell us it is our mandate to protect the lives of women in this country, and therefore, as implementers, go do your work, we will deal with opposition. So for us, that is a win. Then number two, of course, we are also convening what we are calling an intersectoral movement, where we are bringing together both traditional and non-traditional actors, because over the years, we've been speaking to ourselves. And speaking to ourselves, we don't see change. So we have been intentionally making One, the policymakers be part of the movement so that they understand, they listen from the young people, they listen from the women themselves, they listen from the gender minorities themselves. They listen from the sex workers so that they are getting to hear what exactly are the challenges they are facing, how does the data, what is the data telling us. And so being part of that, then they become our champions, they become champions for SRHR. We are bringing people from academia and research because, again, like I said, it is evidence-based. It's not value-based, it's not emotive, but we want to generate evidence that can support us. We have identified communities that traditionally, like we said, she corrected me, put it, some of the work we do at the national level, it's not known at the community, and those are the beneficiaries of the work that we do. Those are the people that are affected. You know, when we talk about gender-based violence, those are the people that are affected. So we are also making them or bringing them to be part of the movement so that they can share humanistic stories, they can tell their story, so that when someone is telling a story, it is not theoretical, but there's a face to a ruptured uterus, there's a face to a gender minority who was kicked or who was even, you know, who was harassed and taken to the police station, and we know what homophobia can do. We are talking about a sex worker who was assaulted. So we are bringing all those voices on the table so that they are speaking to their issues when the policy makers are available.

Thank you. Joanna, would you like to... You know, give me Otherwise, I'm just pointing you, but you can also give me a mark if you would like.

No, that's fine. Yeah, I think in a world where most people define themselves as religious, we as a faith actor feel like that's a really good entry point for entering into discussions with other faith organizations. And religion is not static. It evolves over time. I think a lot of people think of religion as, oh, it was something made, I don't know, 1,000 years ago, and then that's that. But actually, it does evolve. So and most faith traditions speak about equality, speak about human dignity, so it's really not some weird concept to enter in conversations about. And actually, a lot of faith actors engage with a lot of the issues that are part of the Beijing Platform for Action. It's just that they might not do the full scale, and they might be not working on certain issues, but that it's It's really not strange, it's not awkward to enter into conversation on these topics. And I think it's really important, I know you were talking, Nelly, about the situation on health in many rural areas. And in a lot of cases, it's actually the faith actors providing social services in the most marginalized communities. So, for that reason, we also feel that we got to work with these faith actors to make sure that they provide quality health services for all, and it's inclusive and available, also for those that don't have as much money, like you were talking about. And some of our partners, for instance, specifically work on youth-friendly SRHR. to make sure that they – that is available also in marginalized parts of society. And in some cases, they are also a lot better at reaching men and boys because of their standing in society. So people consider the church as a credible institution that you can turn to, so also men and boys turn up for different things. Another thing that we try to do is that we – because we work both with secular and faith actors, we try to bridge and make sure that they come together and do joint action, because in a lot of cases, maybe secular feminists are a little bit scared of religion and doesn’t really want to go in – enter into that. So we try to facilitate that joint cooperation, not just keeping to ourselves and working together, and we have partners working specifically on dialogue between religious leaders and the LGBT community to ensure that we curb hate speech, we get health LGBT-friendly services, that LGBT persons are included in community activities and stuff like that. And another thing, just – I’m going to stop soon, I promise. So in many countries, family law is really just family law. And for those of you – I think a lot of people in the Nordics might not think about what family law is, but in many countries, it really decides and regulates the woman’s status before, during, and after marriage. It might decide whether you can leave your home, whether you can get a passport, you can open a bank account, or you just have to follow your spouse, whatever he decides. So we also work with other religious actors to reform religious family laws. And quite often, it's colonial, old colonial laws that have not been touched for centuries. And we do this, we work with religious actors that want to reform from within. So it’s not just – I mean, we work also with those who want to pressure from the outside, but that combination, I think, is really effectful and a good strategy. Yeah.

Thank you. Irina, your mic.

Yeah. I like very much what you says about the religious should be also developed, I would say, in this situation. And your experience is very valuable even for Ukraine, and I would love to invite you to talk to our religion leaders, because it's very hard to explain what we mean and what is the difference, and that we have iPhones and everybody use it, but traditional values they see only in very narrow focus in that issue. And what I want also to stress that we need to bring gender mainstreaming to whole system, to be not to be on the system, not the option, take or not. And it's very important also to involve more men and boys to the issue. It's also the big obstacles in Ukraine when a lot of men think this, okay, you are talking about the gender issues, it’s only for women. It’s not for us. It’s – we are fine for now, and it’s very important to involve them to the discussion even, and also to acknowledge them about what is – what – how it’s influence them also. And I like the words of one activist who said that feminists liberate men, actually. So it’s a big power even for him today. And during the war, we have the situation that women become reskilling on the men traditionally professions. They teach how to drive a truck, how to make a lot of engineer things, because men are on the front line on the war, and they should take care of all the things which they never before did. And from this side, it’s very visible how the gender issue was unequal before, that woman could do whatever she want to do, but those patriarchy system, they divided person from the – from man and woman, and the jobs which they allowed are not allowed to do. And this is the biggest also those old traditional system which we have, and we definitely need to broke this.

But who do you work with then to kind of break it? I mean, are you working with other organizations? How are you trying to?

We work with the women's leader organization, networking all over Ukraine to strengthen their knowledges and ability to talk about the GBV because We have a lot of organizations which appear because women were involved in volunteering activity with the full escalation, and now we want them to be institutionalized and strengthen their ability to work, to continue work with those issues which appear very widely in Ukraine. It’s from one part. Another side that we are working directly with the women for those reskilling, providing psychological support, and legal aid, and et cetera. It’s very important because we have three years of the war, and a lot of population are in stress. I mean, the whole population are in stress. We have bomb alarm every day, some cities 10 days per time per days, some like two few times per week, and women lived for three years in stress. That’s mean – and all therapist said that it will cause the endocrine system very much. So we need this scaling health care in every community, in small villages, because women will not leave their kids and going to the big cities for scanning and prophylactics of any diseases. And this is another problem and issue which we will have. And we also work with a famous international organization, and those experience, as you, Joanna, says, we have the Queen for representatives for our partners from Danish, who also bring us their expertise in working with their men and boys, because it’s a new practice for Ukraine how to involve policemen, for example, in those issues and et cetera. But it’s still very, very important.

That was kind of a key for also asking you, Sylvia, because I know in your organization, you are also trying to kind of integrate cooperation with people with different perspectives and different backgrounds. Could you tell me a little bit more about that?

I think that our organization, I'm so happy for the position I have gotten to be the chair, because I think we are, as an organization, we are an umbrella organization for 72 women's organizations. And you have all walks of life there. You have all political women’s part like sections, but you have everything from household Martas you have to the immigrant women, to sports clubs. You have everybody there. And that’s over 400,000 women. So, I mean, we are forced to be reckoned with. If you want to see how girls fight, please take a seat. But the thing is, do we have to – I think Lilia was here so importantly on the thing that we must now at this time, forget what is dividing us. We must try to focus on what is common within us. What can we agree on? And let's push on that together. And not because this is what the anti-gender movement, which is, I think, the biggest threat for us at this moment. This is what they are trying to do. They are trying to divide us. They are trying to divide me and Lilia as a secular feminist and a feminist of faith. They are trying to come in between us. And this is the first thing we must do. We will not let them divide us, because we need to empower We need to enable, and we need to unite. And that means that we need to support each other. We have this former president. The punchline is coming. Our former president in Finland, Mrs. Tarja Halonen, spokesperson. Oh, thank you. You know her. I love her. And she's been a real champion for equality. Our first female president, our first foreign Minister as well, yeah, so she has been. And she once said that there is no point in being bruised breaking the glass ceiling if nobody's coming after me. So this is what we need to do when we get the cracking there, you give out a helping hand to the next one coming up. And if she isn't of the same faith as you, if she's not from the same political affiliation than you, it doesn't matter. You give out the hand, and this is how we will succeed in this. And then one, I really have actually a real thing to say. We have started this anti-gender network. Where we try now, we have just begun, we try to bring everybody, all the actors in the gender equality field together so that we together can have a common state of play, understanding where we are, what does the threats look like, so we can share information and then after that get to the point where we can start making action together and hopefully be a responsive unit also for attacks when they happen, because this anti-gender movement, it’s so It’s a difficult enemy to tackle.

You’re so polite. You sit there and you say, “Oh, I’m sorry, I’m talking such a long time.” You’re so interested in listening too, so please, don’t hold back. Don’t be so polite. Just take the floor, take the mic. Nelly.

Yes.

Good for good comments. Are you getting inspired from this, or are you getting frustrated?

I can’t say no. Definitely.

Or frustrated, maybe?

No, no, no, no. Definitely. And I just – listening to all of them and the fantastic work they’re all doing, I think about, again, the global south, women in leadership, especially politics. It’s messy. It’s dirty. Right now, we have what we are calling the technology-facilitated violence, and it is bad for women. And I know a lot of them are pulling out because they just can’t – it is bad. When I say in Kenya it’s bad, I can’t even mention how – because you’ll get your nudes on social media. That’s how petty it gets. And I’m just wondering, so how do we support them as the women movement in Africa, in Kenya? How do we support these women? Because our government is committed to the two-third gender role, and we want to see a lot of them get into power because we believe when women take up power, we see a lot of transformation. We see a lot of women being supported and a lot of programs that come on board that are supporting the girl child and women. So how do we support these women? Yeah.

Sylvie, you said something about that before, because now you're experiencing with the local elections, and I guess that counts for, I mean, all countries, that you pick a lot of you tap a lot of talented young women on their shoulder and ask them to run for office and try to encourage, go there, and they too many of them.

Yeah, and this is and what I’m talking about is in a society where we don’t have half of the struggles that Nelly and her Kenyan sisters are going through, I mean, and still it is silencing women. I'm thinking just as, as a European and being a politician, uh, we need legislation, we need a harder, uh, strong leadership towards the technological companies. I mean, they do have to moderate their platforms, they do have to make action against hate speech because. That's where it happens. The internet isn't just like a place. I mean, there are companies that provide those platforms, and we have to keep those companies and those platforms responsible for it. And that takes tremendous strength and leadership to do that because they have so much power. And I've seen in the European Union how we have tried, and we still do, and we are going to do, but they are really, really not They are not wanting to play along, so we really have to fight them back hard, and this, I think, is something that then would help globally, because then we attack, we take all the platforms back to us. And then we also have to acknowledge it in legislation, that that is a form of harassment. It is a form of harassment if it’s in social media, if it’s anybody’s – if it’s pictures, if it’s written words, that is harassment. And we have to also educate our authorities to recognize this sort of harassment, and then we have to have legislation they can act upon. Yeah. And then we have the means to tell the young women that you do not have to take this. You can contact the authorities. The law is on your side. But I think it really has to do with With the companies, we really have to as a society, and this is why I think this is possible, because the Nordic cooperation and the progress we in Finland during my whole entire lifetime, we have been most successful when we do things bipartisan. Yeah, that is the Nordic Council, that is the Nordic cooperation, is that of course we come with our political affiliations. That’s no problem. But that’s not the main point that we fight each other. We fight together for – to go forward. And that’s why I think that in this legislation, we also have to forget those lines, forget that division. Yeah.

I would share our experience that Ukraine followed your experience, and we have the quotas in our election code for five years, for last five years. And we ensure that in every – in the list on the election, that in every five person, two of them should be in different gender, in different sex. And we have more women for now in local levels, but not in our parliament. In our parliament, we have only 20 percent of women. And we have – and that’s helped, for example, on the local level to have 30 and more number of women. So now we are struggling to have the quotas in the statutes of political parties, because women are in the list, but women are not in the governance body of the political parties. And what we talked – when we talked to women in the first time that, do you know how they make the decision, why the men are the leading the party, most of the parties, they said, “No, It is just one person who make the decision. We even don’t have the general meetings to make those decisions. It’s – they are very formal. And we said you should do – to push that, that you need to have only also quotas in your statutes, in your general papers, to fix it, that men and women should be equally represented in the body of the party, not only in the list for the election. And this is what a lot of women even don't think about before, but we need to push them from the top and then from the bottom to provide those knowledge, statistic to the women, because they will never gather if we will not help them to have those fingers in their hand to allow and advocate for those things.

That is so important, that is so important. Quotas help us break the ceiling, and then, of course, we want to be elected just because we are competent, but we need that tool to get there. But then it's really important to also go within the statistics, because in Finland, we have on a regular basis the same discussion. Us women are feeling that in the parliament, we are not getting equal time to speak. And then the head of the parliament comes with his statistics and goes like, "Look, it's 50/50." But that's not the whole point. Then you have to look when and where and on which topic did the women get time to speak. And in Finland, it's like when the media is there and in the beginning of the day, it's the hardcore, it's foreign policy, it's securities, finance. And then when it's the late night, us women are sitting there talking about social and welfare and these kind of questions. So we have to also go within the statistics.

It's funny, I'm- I'm thinking about what you're just saying that then the women are sitting there late at night talking about the social and welfare and so on. I remember getting a question once from a journalist, uh, we had just formed a government, uh, I was Minister of Social Affairs, fantastic, and it was like. aren't you disappointed that you kind of got this ministry?" And I was like, "What?" So that's, I mean, let's pay attention to that one and not, let's not say that there are specific women policy areas. I mean, it's for all gender, all types of politics, and needed, and we do make better decisions when we are all around the table in our diversity.

Yeah, I also want to share that the journal, i was running for local elections five years ago, and then journalists asked me, but women are so more emotional than men. And I, you know, just regular tricks. And I said, okay, can you remember at least one struggling in the beating in the parliament, which was initiated by women. So it's, I mean, in Ukrainian parliament, it's mostly the man has. It's not so many cases, but it still has, and it was initiated only by men, not by women. So it's about the.

And just like Sylvia said, I think we come with a whole lot of problems, because for Kenya as a woman, If you wanted to go for an electoral position, the community you want to serve will be asking you, how much do you have for us? It's a case of financial muscles.

Yeah. Yeah.

Women don't have the money. They would be depending on their husbands. Women don't even have property that they can sell so that they can get money to get into the electoral position. So if you are not part of a very powerful party and you get the endorsement of the leadership of that powerful party, chances are that you're not going to make it. Yes. Or they would quickly bring in a counterpart who is male, and they'll elbow you out of the elections. So, being a woman first in itself is a biggest problem. Then when you think about getting into an elective position and you do not have the godfather and the muscles, I mean, it is a dream that you might take 50 years to achieve, and maybe that time you will be 90. And what if you are a young woman that is aspiring for an elective position? I mean, what experience do you have? How do you speak before men?

And how is the whole system built up? What kind of funding is needed to run a campaign? Is there any transparency to that? So it's a – there's a lot. Anyway, this is not an election discussion, but it's really interesting. And we have less than 15 minutes, and I just want to make sure, if it's all right with you, that we open also to the audience, so you can get a chance maybe to share a reflection and also ask a question. We had a side event yesterday. Okay. I am very prepared for that, and of course, no one will be harassing the panelists. And we have had a very good and straight dialogue here. That's how we are going to continue. So we can listen to reflections. We can listen to reflections, and it's possible to ask questions. We do not promise fulfilled answers. That's your privilege. But anyway, we can listen to questions. So I think we should take a couple of questions from the audience. And then raise your hand. And also, I think it's very important that you let us know, of course, who you are and what organization you represent. And we probably will need a microphone, so

Can you hear it without the microphone? Okay, good.

Organization, women are the force for a change. So of course, we are way behind you guys because first we have to free our country until we can have the equality that we are looking for to have. But I'm also an American. I'm living here, and I look at what's happening, unfortunately, in our country, and I see that it's spreading around the far right. So my question are two things. One, USAID had cut off a lot of the budget. What the Nordic – because you guys are forefront, so we have to face it. You guys have done so much on women rights. How – are you planning to help those organizations that they were getting funds from USAID? Is there anything that everybody maybe can help or come up with? And two, what are you doing with the expanding the far right in your countries? I just want to learn more so I can, when I talk to women in here, I can pass it on. And also, why aren't we all, women around the world, don't have one body that can work together to pursue our agenda for the changes, for progress, for equality? I don't see that. I see a lot of local ones, but I don't see one full body. What is your suggestions in that? Sorry about that. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much. We'll take a few questions and then I'll allow the panel to respond to the questions. So I have one here in the back. You cannot get through to a microphone? You need to. If you cannot get through to a microphone, you cannot have the floor. Yes. Helping each other, we like that.

I just had, I'm from Iceland, represent the only organization defending migrant women right in Iceland, and we're having a very difficult situation there. Immigrants are more than 20% of the population, and our problem with this pushback is intersected with hateful speech towards immigration too, so it's a double problem for us. And my question is, what are the strategies? We admire your model, and we want to be part of it, but we feel we're one train behind, and we want to belong too. Thank you.

Thank you very much. More hands. Keep calm and democratic? Does it say that? You're in the pink T-shirt. That's why I said keep calm, because it's on your T-shirt. Just under the microphone, there's a button. Yes.

It's working. Thank you. Hello. Thank you so much for being here and taking the time to be here. I really appreciate it. My name is Tara Howes, and I'm with the Canadian Research Institute for the Advancement of Women. I think my question is largely directed toward our esteemed Karen and Laura, but I'm happy to hear from civil society. And it's about the implementation of things like the joint declaration. I mean, it's one thing for a politician to say, let's do this. It's a whole other thing to align legislation, policies, programs, and drag along perhaps staff or other parliamentarians who are not up there. And so are you doing things in this sort of centralized approach where you may have one department or a ministry that's leading the charge and doing things very consistently across government? Or is it more decentralized where you perhaps have ministries doing things in their own way, so you get a little more nuance, but it may not be consistent across government? All right.

Thank you for your question. And I see more hands. I see more. Shouldn't we have a male voice? There are different male voices. I'll give you the floor.

And thank you for having me here. My name is Graham Nyaberi, and I work with Planned Parenthood Global. And I'm humbled to have more of my mentors in this room specifically, and Nelly Munyasy has also been part of the panel. being one of my mentors, and Dr. Monica Gutu, and many other colleagues who are in the room. My question is straightforward. Happy to listen to Sylvia, and it's been amazing listening to you and the organizations and the kind of work you do. And being a data scientist, I'm just following back to see, are there any AI tools that you're planning to interrogate or rather integrate into the great work that you're doing in terms of gender mainstreaming, like you're looking at a fire that has also been coming up to put together medical records and the rest. Are there any AI tools that you're planning or AI tools that the Nordic ministers are looking at to bring this together so that we have centralized, you know, I mean, streaming that people also from the other global south are able to follow up, join in, and, you know, join forces to just better improve gender issues that we have around the globe. Thank you.

Thank you so much. So now we have six minutes left, and you all need to respond to the questions. Maybe you can pick your favorites. And actually, I'll turn to you to start with, Laura, because the question from the Canadian perspective was actually addressed to you and me, but I have the closing word.

I don't know, some of you know that we have a coalition government in Finland, and the other, my minister and I will represent the prime minister party, but the other big coalition partner is a far-right party in Finland. And so it does take a lot to come and remind our partners that they too have committed to promoting gender equality. My minister is the Minister of Social Security, and she has gender equality in her portfolio. But the government as a whole, we have to remind our ministers that all of them are, it's in our law for gender equality that all of them have to promote gender issues. So it's just not the Minister of Gender Equality who has that task, but it's something that should be done in all the ministries, and we have a network of the ministries that they have their experts on gender equality, and in all our legislation, there has to be this space that says that how does this affect the gender equality and are there effects to women or men and that also. But it's an issue, and it's not easy. I'm happy to admit that it's not easy always, but it's something. And we've had issues where my minister has had to remind her colleagues that, hey, it’s also your job to remember that we have decided – it’s written in our government program that we are promoting, and it’s especially on foreign politics, which is – which are very – we are very committed to promoting gender equality and LGBTQ rights as well as a government, as a whole.

Thank you, Laura. Now we have four minutes left. You get one minute each, and that's also your closing remarks. That's mean. Johanna.

Yeah, so I'll just speak to the USAID cuts. To be honest, we are still assessing what we can do with the funds that we have. We do not have USAID money, but many of our partners did, so that's a mapping that we're doing. But then I want to take my last 30 seconds to encourage governments and other funders to really step up here. This is the time, you know, you got to fund the change you want to see.

Yes. US aid is so significant that Europe is never going to be able to fully compensate that. That is just a sad fact, but of course we will try, but hopefully the people here will understand that most of that money was actually used in the United States, and hopefully that will then change when the report comes out. Immigrant women, family leave is one of the things that we hope that will help the immigrant women in Finland, because they then will have a better possibility to come into society and fill their full potential. far right, the AI tools – no, we haven’t. We will look into this. The far right is best fought with welfare, because they feed off fear. Fear is the most strongest of feelings. And when people fear for their future, they fear for their tomorrow, they fear for their livelihood, that is what they feed on. So build on welfare and equality. That is the best tool against the far right. This time we are living. means that being silent and not doing anything is not neutral. This is the time where everybody has to find that one small thing how you can participate. This is a time where not doing anything is not neutral.

It's hard to add something to those brilliant words. So, of course, we are also very I very advocate for women migrants all over the different countries, because there are a lot of Ukrainians all over Europe and also in United States, in Canada, and I’m very grateful to those government who provided support. It’s very important for those women to have such support in these circumstances, of course. And I – from my side, I like very much that gender issues, it’s not about the policy, it’s about the human rights. And we need to put this conception on the table of and put the woman on the decision-making table, this is very important. Thank you.

We refuse to be guarded. Collectively, we will make change for women and girls across the globe.

This was it, you guys. We have only one minute left. I think you have done amazingly in this panel. I'll get back to you with the details on the Nordic Corporation, but at least to tell you all that the Nordic ministers for gender equality, they have a shared vision, and that is not just to push back the pushback, but actually to keep pushing for progress. So a big round of applause to this esteemed panel. Thank you. Thank you.