(Day 1) Sevilla Platform for Action (SPA) Initiatives Announcement - 4th International Conference on Financing for Development FFD4 (Sevilla, Spain)
Conferences
Date: 30 June 2025
Language: English
Transcript: https://transcripts.un.org/en/asset/k17/k17ptqpfno
Transcripts available through this tool are created by using automatic speech recognition and are not official records nor official documents of the United Nations. Official records and official documents are available on the Official Document System of the United Nations.

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IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [0:00]:

Good afternoon, everyone. I hope you're all well. Welcome to this afternoon panel launch event. My name is Elisangela Rita, and I will be speaking about the launch of the Coalition on Tax Expenditure Reform. You have the slides up. Okay. It's usually you're supposed to do ice breaking, but I wonder how much ice you can break in 42 degrees weather, so not much needed, I guess. Right, so my name is Elisangela Rita. I am a senior policy advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment at the Institute for Sustainable Development, International Institute for Sustainable Development, IISD. On the panel, we have Ms. Alice Walker, Louise Walker, who is the head of private sector and capital markets department at the FCDO. And so I will pass over to Louise towards the end of our event. And yeah, hoping to hear some questions at the end if you may have. I'm also joined by other colleagues that are members of this coalition that is being presented, and they're here in the front row. So if anything, you can always catch them. Right, so as I said, we're here to speak about and launch, essentially, this coalition on tax expenditure reform. This coalition, which is one of the many initiatives that are being launched at the Seville Platform of Action, we're very glad and proud to be here to launch it. Yes, and I'm being joined by my colleagues on the coalition, great. Essentially, the coalition proposes a decade of focused action on tax expenditure reform. So we're proposing inclusive, collaborative initiative to design, implement and evaluate tax expenditures more effectively. This coalition will focus on rationalizing and reforming ineffective or harmful tax expenditures, which we're kindly shortening to TEs. And what does this mean? This essentially means increasing transparency, above all implementing minimum reporting standards, enhancing oversight and management, and promoting comprehensive evaluations. Because it's vital to enhance evidence-based policymaking and therefore reform tax expenditures. And why tax expenditures, you may ask? I can tell you that these are the three main reasons that we identified. Tax expenditures are universally applied. Governments worldwide use tax incentives and different forms of tax expenditures, tax holidays, exemptions, reduced rates, accelerated depreciation, et cetera, to essentially attract investment and promote a wide range of other policy goals. The second reason is that tax expenditures are highly relevant. When we are referring to tax expenditures, I'm sure everyone in the room is aware, but we're speaking about revenue that is foregone. purposefully in order to achieve a specific revenue obligations, budgetary obligations, and so these are extremely relevant because this revenue forgone can lie around 4% of GDP and 25% of total revenue, tax revenue globally. And lastly, tax expenditures we find are somewhat in the shadow because governments often don't know, aren't aware of exact amounts of how much revenue is being foregone when these tax expenditures, these incentives are granted. So it's essential to understand, to bring them to light and to perceive what impact do they actually have. Therefore, the coalition has identified a need for this tax expenditure scenario to be reformed. Countries are facing pressures to raise domestic revenues due to high debt levels, scarcity of funds, and so rationalizing tax expenditures is ever more important. We believe that the key steps in doing this are increasing transparency, as I mentioned, minimum reporting standards, and enhancing the oversight and management of tax expenditures. And this oversight and management, which is very obviously a part of tax expenditure granting, is often neglected. Therefore, reforming tax expenditures is critical to free up the fiscal space that countries need to raise, mobilize domestic resources and then fund development, social, climate needs that are ever more pressing. And this is a perfect opportunity. Countries have a significant opportunity with FFD4 to forge collective commitments towards tax expenditure reform. FFD4 is a critical opportunity to countries to agree on a bold commitment. on reforming tax expenditures that are ineffective or harmful. And yes, so the coalition is being presented by these five organizations that are here represented. The Council on Economic Policies, the International Center for Tax Development, the German Institute of Development and Sustainability, International Institute for Sustainable Development, IISD, and ODI Global. And these are all organizations that regularly engage with governments and society in collaborative research, technical assistance for the design, use, impact of tax reforms. So these organizations are perfectly placed to lead this coalition. The coalition has four action areas that are being proposed. Scaling up research and independent technical support to governments. exchanging expertise and best practices to therefore create a global knowledge sharing platform, leveraging complementary strengths of our different organizations to provide a holistic support, and lastly, strengthening international momentum to ensure that TE reforms are evidence-based. So essentially, these four arms of coalition actions mean that Firstly, there's a research and technical assistance arm that will focus on designing, implementing, monitoring, evaluating, reforming these TE regimes. The second arm is an exchange of knowledge arm that will share TE best practices to build on initiatives such as the Tax Expenditures Lab, the Communities of Practice on Tax Expenditures. The third arm is focused on really complementing our and leveraging on our experience so that we can ensure that the support that is available is spread as widely as possible, is as impactful as possible, and that there is no duplication of efforts. The last leg focuses on strengthening international momentum. And we believe that by engaging on tax expenditure reform in the global and regional initiatives and contributing jointly to these instruments is the key element, the key time-related element. I'm going to go a bit faster just because of time. These are the sustainable development goals that the coalition responds to and speaks to. And of course, this coalition can function, can only function through collaborative efforts, and so that it will work with international organizations. For instance, the Platform for Collaboration on Tax has recently taken important steps for the support of TE policy reform. And that will definitely be a part of our efforts. The coalition would complement such initiatives by providing policy solutions that are tailored to local contexts and that are really country-led and country and demand-led. So lastly, we would like to thank the endorsing countries that have been supporting this coalition, namely the United Kingdom, Senegal, Rwanda, Nigeria, France, and Brazil. And we're very happy to have the representative of the United Kingdom here to speak to us a little bit. And yes, thank you very much. This was our very brief presentation of the Coalition on Tax Expenditure Reform. Thank you.


United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland · Head of private sector and capital markets · Louise Walker [9:48]:

Hello, everyone. Thanks, Elisangela, for setting that out so clearly. My name is Louise Walker. I'm head of the private sector and capital markets for the UK's Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. And the UK is really pleased to endorse the Coalition for Tax Expenditure Reform, as Elisangela just said, with Senegal, Nigeria, Rwanda, Brazil, and France. also signing on and I'm sure that we'll see others as well really commit to this journey that the coalition is taking over the coming years. Coalition members are well versed in the negative impacts of ineffective tax expenditures, which, as we've just heard, reduce government revenue and fray the social contract between government and its citizens, especially when businesses tell us that tax incentives often don't feature when they are making investment decisions. So we know for many countries, reforming tax expenditure regimes is a priority. And the reason why is clear. So the foregone revenue where lower income countries forego almost 20% of revenue because of tax expenditures. And that's just the countries that report this. So we expect the actual number to be much higher. And this is revenue that could be invested in critical public services. So we've seen the SDG set out. This is why we're here. So this is SDG finance at the core. So action requires not just the expertise to reform incentive regimes, but also political backing. And we know in many countries, starting to unravel the tax expenditure regime can be really complicated because it's been layered on layered on layered for so many years that finding the way through and understanding what works, what doesn't work, what needs to be kept, what needs to be refined is actually complicated and a big challenge. So this is why the coalition and its commitment to action on reform can really make sustained progress. More revenue and more fiscal space, and obviously fiscal space is really, really critical as we see countries in debt distress or at risk of debt distress. a strong social contract to deliver the SDGs, which creates trust when there is transparency and fairness, and more focus on what is important to attract investment, so what actually works in terms of taxes and making investments attractive. So the Coalition on Tax Expenditure Reform has this expertise and is well placed to deliver the change. And as we've just heard, the continued exchange of best practice, so the thriving community of practice emerging from the Addis Tax Initiative and the growing trend of peer-to-peer learning, which hopefully can bring more countries into the fold. The focus on collaboration. So organizations have unique skill sets and when they collaborate, they can complement each other. So together there is greater impact and importantly, sustained international momentum. So the coalition working alongside the platform for collaboration on tax and its individual institutions can really drive this agenda and expand it. So optimizing tax revenue and incentivizing investment are both critical for public and private finance to deliver the SDGs. And we look forward to seeing the coalition's progress. And again, very, very pleased to endorse this very important initiative. Thank you.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [14:20]:

Thank you very much, Ms. Louise. And we're also pleased to announce that Guinea has also endorsed the coalition. So it's a growing family, we see. So thank you very much. So, yes, the floor is open for-- we have a few minutes for questions, if you may have. And our colleagues here are ready and eager to answer your questions. Yes, please.


Speaker 4 [15:00]:

Can I just -- it's on. Just talk, yes. I just wanted to add one point that is quite relevant, actually. This is the first outcome document, the Compromiso de Sevilla, the first outcome document of a financing for development conference under the roof of the United Nations. that has a reference to tax expenditures officially in the document. And it says that countries are encouraged to improve monitoring and management of tax expenditures, including transparent and regular reporting. So this is the backing, if you want, that we have as an initiative to push this on the international agenda. And we are convinced that tax expenditures are not the sole responsibility of individual governments. It's an issue of international coordination, where it would be really very helpful that governments would agree on joint standards for tax expenditure reporting and on joint minimum standards also for evaluation. Because one thing is reporting, the other thing is evaluating the costs, but also the benefits of tax expenditures, and then feeding this into reforms that help to rationalize the use of tax expenditures. We know that the money that is spent on tax expenditures is not necessarily lost, but we think it's really important that governments have the evidence in their hand to decide whether or not a specific tax expenditure makes sense. And this is being achieved through transparent reporting and through evaluations.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [17:07]:

Thank you. I think we have a question here in the front.


Speaker 6 [17:14]:

Thanks very much.

Thanks very much to the panel.

This is very exciting to have a coalition on tax expenditure reform. I have two questions.

The first.

Is, obviously the organisations represented here are not the only organisations working with countries to reform, to evaluate tax expenditures. So how is this coalition working with other organisations, namely the Platform for Collaboration on Tax?

And my other question was linked to the global minimum tax.

That's provided a lot of momentum for tax expenditure reform with the US pulling out of that deal and kind of momentum waning.

How does that affect your mission?

Thank you.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [17:55]:

No, please.


Speaker 8 [17:56]:

Hello. Yeah, so I can take the second one. Thanks, Ali, and congratulations to you too. You're part of the coalition. On the minimum tax, yeah, obviously tax incentives, tax expenditures in general are at the core of the whole debate. When we talk about the effective tax rate, obviously the action is going actually through tax incentives, tax expenditures in the end. So without going into the technicalities because it's huge and I don't feel even capable of doing that. I have, so my naive approach to this is if there is a good outcome out of the whole GMT process, it is that some countries would at least start thinking about the use of tax incentives, right? I mean, if that, the whole process push these countries to think which tax incentives make sense, which tax incentives are cost effective and which maybe are redundant and maybe are not triggering the desired effects and need to be reformed. And if all that happens, as an outcome of this GMT discussion, that for me would be already a good outcome. I'm not judging here what the potential revenue implications of the GMT would be if countries implement that or not, I'm not going there, but at least thinking about the use of tax incentives, the design features, not all tax incentives have the same impact, some of them tend to be better than others. All this discussion, I think it would be great to have, and in some particularly, but not only low income countries, it could be already treating some positive effects. Yeah.

Yeah, there was the question on the PCT, the platform for collaboration on tax, which is an initiative carried by the four major international organizations, the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank, and the OECD. And the PCT, the platform, is also very active on issues of tax incentives and tax expenditures, and they produce tools like toolkits that governments then can use and apply. And for us, collaborating with these initiatives and being also included in the process that leads to such toolkits is very important. And we are quite confident that our initiative will be of interest for these international organizations as well.


ODI [20:39]:

Thank you. And just to add to that, the The rules, the global rules coming out of the OECD and potentially in the negotiations around the UN tax convention will be important for developing countries to evaluate for themselves how to integrate those things into their domestic tax laws. And I think That also makes it as important as, just to build on the points that my colleagues have made, the use of evidence in that process is going to be extremely important. So anything that, any support that countries can have to... improve the use of data, transparency around estimating these tax expenditures, and then being able to evaluate their effectiveness. It's going to be really important for better policy formulation around these things. And that is something that we're all working to share lessons from. And we're already seeing from the countries that we have long term partnerships with at the ODI with through our Center for Tax Analysis in Developing Countries, that countries that have established annual tax expenditure reports also have requested more evidence and data and review of the effectiveness of their tax expenditures, which in some cases is also leading to rationalization and reforms of those incentives. So we hope to be able to encourage more countries to do the same and to see some improvement in the governance of tax expenditures more generally. Thank you.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [22:21]:

Thank you. I think we have another question here in the middle and one at the back.


Spain [22:29]:

Thank you very much. This is Ministry of Finance in Spain. We are very interested hearing and listening all the initiative.

I mean, Spain is one of the country that we already have a budget on tax expenditures every year.

Presented into the into Parliament together with the with the budget, with the general budget. So it's something that we have been done many, many years.

So it's also true that in the last couple of years, we're also doing the spending review. So trying to analyze and evaluate the effective effectiveness of those taxes, expenditures.

So we will be happy to join in.

And.

Collaborate with all of you and the organization and try to learn from you and share with you all our knowledge.

So we're happy to join and thank you very much for this initiative.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [23:26]:

Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Spain. It's good to see this family of support growing. Thank you very much. Yes, please. It's not working. Okay.


Spain [23:46]:

Yeah, now it's working. Now it's two interventions from Spain.

It's from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Spain.

And thank you very much for proposing this fine initiative. I completely agree with what you said that in the current situation with the discussions on the global minimum tax, the monitoring of tax expenditure is quite important.

We would like to know.

If the commitments included in the SPY initiatives are already closed or they can be revised after.

And I was thinking maybe there are different commitments from maybe low income countries that may have some commitments, but also countries that do investments in those countries sometimes should also commit to revise because sometimes they require low-income countries these tax expenditures in order to invest. So I was wondering if the kind of commitments could be reviewed to have differences. And thank you for the proposal and I wish you all the luck.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [25:01]:

Thank you.


Spain [25:02]:

Just another question. I have seen that you don't include anything about the tax expenditures for ODA flows, which is something that has been discussed. Is it something that could be included in the future?


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [25:18]:

Thank you. I can start and then I'll pass over to colleagues also to say, but I was just going to say that the coalition is being proposed now. It's really in its design stage. And commitments can still be amended and we can still, the objective of this effort is really to come together and share experiences. And fora like this are the place where we can collaborate and understand where exactly the coalition can be impactful. So I would say a yes to your first question, but my colleagues, please.


Speaker 17 [25:54]:

I would like to echo that and, uh, actually it's our, in our very interest to, um, to open, uh, the initiative to additional candidates. countries and additional international organizations as well and to join forces with us. So very happy to hear that Spain is interested and we are also very sure that we can learn a lot from Spain and from the way how you do it. It's not only one way. And just to also to say that the colleague from the Foreign Ministry made a very important point. The issue of tax expenditures is never only an issue for low and middle income countries. It's a universal issue. All countries in the world, perhaps there are a few exceptions, but let's say the vast majority applies tax expenditures and only a small minority of countries actually engages in regular evaluations of those tax expenditures. It is an issue that is of interest for all United Nations member states and we are very sure that all countries that join this initiative or that have interest and contribute to this initiative will get something out of it.


ODI [27:22]:

Thank you. Just on the point about the taxation of development assistance as well, actually at ODI Global we did do a study about this and one of the things that we found was that these, well, most, many, many countries, many donor countries providing assistance into developing countries do request exemptions or relief from taxation and there are reasons for that, partly political, related to the way that they provide financial assistance, but we did find that those reliefs do cause challenges for the countries that they provide assistance to, particularly in the tax administration in terms of managing those things, which can lead to opportunities for abuse and further kind of undermining of revenue mobilization efforts. And so there has been an effort to try to review these and find better ways of managing that. There was a process that led to some guidelines by the United Nations on the use of tax relief and the taxation of overseas development assistance. We encourage people to look at those, and we would be happy to work with anybody who would like to find better ways of managing them. And also we look at the tax policy from the developing country or the low income country perspective as well. And we have seen that some of the donor countries have already done some reviews of this and have made reforms to their approaches as well.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [29:04]:

Right, thank you very much. We are getting close to our closing time, but I think there was a, yes, if you can just make a brief comment, yes, thank you. If there are other.


Rionon [29:16]:

Countries or organizations that are interested in joining the coalition or engaging with the coalition, what is the best way for them to do that?


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [29:25]:

Thank you very much, Rionon. Yes, it's a matter of reaching us through e-mail or even today we're here, we're speaking and we will be here during the week. I think the process is pretty simple. Countries have been coming forward by e-mail and responding and announcing that they would like to support. And this endorsement is only so far a formal endorsement doesn't come with any other legal financial commitments at this point. So I think we have, yes, a last comment there. Thank you.


CIAT · Gonzalo Arias [30:05]:

Small comment. My name is Gonzalo Arias. I work for the Inter-American Center of Tax Administrations. Congratulations for the initiative. And I guess that we can explore cooperation opportunities. We work with tax administrations and I guess that it would be a good idea to see what kind of information are producing tax administration that could be useful to assess tax expenditures. Like for example, the electronic invoice and other information they are generating with big data and artificial intelligence.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [30:36]:

Thanks. Thank you very much, Mr. Gonzalo and Siad for this offer. And we'll take the comment here from the.


Kenya [30:43]:

Thank you very much and to join all the participants today in applauding the good initiative in terms of coming up with this compact and particularly the good intention that we see in anchoring policy reforms on evidence-based evaluations as a critical information basis to guide how the reforms should be shaped. And one key critical component in addition to what has been mentioned in terms of efficiency, effectiveness, also to look at the equitable you know, from the equity lens, who benefits from this, how equitable are the tax expenditures, and how then, in terms of equitable lens, do the tax expenditures contribute to policy objectives. And in addition to that, as we listen to the commitments from the different governments, to also look at how non-state actors, think tanks, can plug in and also contribute to the pact and the formation.

Thank you very much.


IISD · Senior Policy Advisor for tax incentives and sustainable investment · Elisangela Rita [31:39]:

Thank you very much, colleagues from Kenya. And yes, I think that's a wrap. Thank you very much for your participation, for your presence, and thank you for colleagues on the panel. Have a good day.


Speaker 26 [40:50]:

Okay.

And, se pone automatically there because no hay otros canales. Vale, se oye bien, perfecto. Y yo voy a oír bien, ¿no? Yo voy a oír bien, seguramente.

Que eso también ayuda, venga?

Vale.

Hola, ¿me escuchas por aquí? Perfecto. ¿Me escuchas por aquí? ¿Es OK.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:17:21]:

Hello, good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this.

Buon pomeriggio.

Benvenuti a questo evento che sta per cominciare. Vi invito a chiudere la porta per poter sentire meglio.

Eccellente.

My name is Agas, I'm the director of the Commission of Development of the OECD, and it's an honor for me to invite you to this session, which will focus on three important initiatives. that supports technical assistance and capacity building for financial sustainable development. And the capacity building is central to the position of sustainable development. And the capacity building is absolutely necessary for achieving the 2030 goals. And the.

Capacity building are the foundation for sustainable financing. Without them, countries cannot fully harness either the domestic or international resources to meet their development priorities. And yet, many countries continue to face institutional, human, and technological capacity constraints. These challenges limit the capacity and their ability to design and implement policies needed to make the financing for development work, or rather to make financing work for development. The initiatives that are going to be presented here today address this call made by the international community for promoting integrated policy approaches and enhanced international support and partnership for capacity development. Their objectives echo the key priorities put forward in the FfD4 outcome document to strengthen public sector capacities for, for instance, domestic resource mobilization, for enhancing sovereign debt management, developing investment policy and innovative finance, for empowering national public development banks, and for strengthening subnational governments. So we have 40 minutes ahead of us. The session will be divided into two parts. In the first segment, lasting around 30 minutes, we will feature the initial presentations. I have the pleasure of introducing the distinguished speakers here on the stage with me, who will each have between eight and 10 minutes to present their initiatives. And then the second segment, lasting 10 to 15 minutes, will be dedicated to the media, where we will open the floor for questions and answers. So let us not waste any time. And it is my pleasure and honor to turn to our first speaker, Edomondo Cirielli, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation. who will be presenting the Sevilla Call to Action, Strengthening Capacities for Financing for Development. And I may add that the OECD is pleased to actively support this Sevilla platform for action.


Italy · Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation · Edomondo Cirielli [1:21:12]:

Mr. Thank you.

Thank you. Good afternoon. And thank you for being here. The Compromiso de Sevilla, adopted at the conference that brings us together, emphasizes that strengthening the capacities of the public sector is needed to mobilize resources to achieve the 2030 agenda. But this gap cannot be closed if we don't invest in people and institutions. It is not just a matter of bringing in more resources. They must be used effectively, turning them into tools for concrete and inclusive development. Many public administrations today are faced with a complex financial environment. They have new tools, but they are lacking the capacities to implement them. Therefore, the Compromiso de Sevilla sees capacity building as a useful condition for making development finance more effective. Priorities should be improved fiscal systems and strengthen domestic resource mobilization, managing public debt in a sustainable and transparent manner, promoting sustainable investment and capital markets, strengthening public development banks and the role of local governments, modernizing public administration and ensuring integrity and accountability in public finance management. Alongside these priorities, the usefulness of an integrated, coordinated approach built on the needs of countries is indicated. In this context, Italy, together with Kenya and other partners, has promoted an international call to action launched here in Seville. on one hand, to increase resources for technical assistance and training; on the other, to ensure that the support is integrated, coordinated and useful. This call to action responds to a growing demand from developing countries. training of civil servants, institutional capacity building, support for public finance management, and promotion of sustainable investments. We need to strengthen debt and public finance management, increase tax revenues and counter illicit financial flows, promote the use of blended finance and facilitate the attraction of investment. Finally, we need to improve public sector integrity and investor confidence. It is not just a matter of enhancing technical expertise. It is important that partner countries can define their own financial strategies, also thanks to this training. This call to action is open to all countries, multilateral banks, bilateral donors, United Nations, and their collective commitment with a focus on results. Italy accompanies its proposals with operational initiatives. One of these that was launched during the Italian presidency in the G7 is an initiative to invest in resilience and engage in a dialogue with Africa. In that occasion, I've had the opportunity to launch a training program for African civil servants developed by the National Administration School in Caserta in the framework of the Mattei Plan for Africa. This project aims to... has a budget of 7,000 million euros. It is open to Kenya and Tunisia, but it's open also to other countries. It aims to train more than 1,400 civil servants on development finance topics, from taxation to sustainable debt management. investment attraction to green and digital transition, enhancing and strengthening the integrity and administrative capacity. This program will be built in coordination with the partners countries, training schools with technical input from the OCDE, and will include theoretical courses, policy dialogue, peer learning, and exchange of practices. This, the Compromiso de Sevilla proposes a clear direction to finance development. Capacity building is needed. This is an operational step, not just an ancillary one. Italy will continue to support the pragmatic and result-oriented approach. We're very pleased that several countries and organizations have already joined our call to action. We invite those who haven't to join this journey. we are working together to build stronger, more transparent public institutions that can drive development and mobilize resources effectively. Thank you.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:26:58]:

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Cirielli. I'm trying to practice my Italian. Now, I'll pass it to Mr. Salvato of the Asian Investment Bank, along with five other partners. that have supported this initiative. I'm here to talk about the support given to the infrastructure. Can you tell us a little bit more?


Asian Investment Bank · Mr. Salvato [1:27:45]:

We must la battaglia del suono, perché sentiamo anche le sale attigue. Grazie al viceministro per l'interazione. È ottimo essere qui per riuscire finalmente a parlare di assistenza tecnica e capacity building, perché abbiamo bisogno di più soldi, ma abbiamo anche bisogno di migliori progetti. È come se viene prima l'uovo o la gallina. Non è solo la quantità di soldi che investiamo, ma è anche la qualità dei progetti che vale. Non abbiamo collaborato in modo abbastanza tempestivo, siamo ancora troppo frammentati. E questo è abbastanza strano, perché per ogni dollaro che investiamo in assistenza ci porta poi a 90 dollari di altre spese indotte. Quindi c'è un investimento enorme che si può prevedere. La leva è da 1 a 70, 1 a 90. Poi a seconda delle situazioni potrebbe essere più ridotto. Dobbiamo quindi superare questa frammentazione dell'assistenza tecnica. Seconda priorità è che c'è questa idea della concorrenza. Si investono molti soldi in assistenza tecnica per preparare dei progetti che alla fine non vengono finanziati, perché adesso ci sono sectors that finance this technical assistance and then we ask countries to finance the project. When they come to us, we say this is a great project, but it's not one of our priorities, so we have to start all over again two years later to prepare a new project. Quindi dobbiamo cooperare in più stretta collaborazione dall'inizio, dalle origini dei progetti. Non dobbiamo farci concorrenza, perché se poi vediamo di quanti soldi stiamo parlando, c'è una pipeline di 1,3 miliardi di dollari. Stiamo perdendo opportunità di business se ci facciamo gara a vicenda. She's, she's on a, she's on a fit, but that's not a grandeur for contributing in these infrastructures. She's trying to find a pulling the total resource, to the color of the level on a sector particular in a region particular. And I'm a very rare quality, so I project it. di cui c'è bisogno. E io non voglio sapere i progetti di adesso, voglio sapere i progetti che avranno bisogno di finanziamento fra tre anni. Stiamo parlando delle infrastrutture per l'idrogeno, progetti digitali, tutte queste vanno nella nostra pipeline. Quindi dobbiamo cercare di mettere insieme risorse di diversa natura per finanziare questi progetti. Prima c'era un finanziatore che metteva 10 milioni di dollari, un altro altri 10. Se tutti mettiamo fin dall'inizio 2 euro, tutti usciremo beneficiati dal progetto. Questo ci permette di trovare quali sono poi le altre risorse che possiamo andare a cercare.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:31:50]:

That's a good point. I think it's actually one of the main, the main, the main, the main, the main, the main. is one of the fundamental questions in this international conference. So we are very happy to have our partners in America, Latin America, Africa. So my general idea is that if you invest one dollar and Thank you very much. You told this story. la sua storia, and it made me very happy to see these three projects side by side. And now she has explained how they are connected. Our last panelist is from the Defix, Mr. Conta, who has launched a catalogue of technical assistance. technique, which is available online, with all the tools and technical assistance available in the world. We are very happy to hear about it.


FIX · Mr. Conta [1:33:41]:

Thank you for the invitation. Some words dedicated to this alliance of 530 public development banks. that invest three billion dollars a year. This was a meeting that took place in 2020, and from there these alliances were born. It's an alliance that brings together development banks, multilateral public and regional. And, therefore, we are here representing the regional development banks to advocate for a new financial architecture. It is a catalogue that we are launching here, which will be available online from today. I will say a few words about the history of this catalogue and the reason for its creation. Asymmetry of information. There are tools available for technical assistance, but... but they are mainly for the preparation of projects, but this technical assistance goes beyond that, it can cover various countries, various regions, and we have found that there are many initiatives in progress, but the development banks public, that is a very heterogeneous group. Since our inception in 2020, we have been committed to supporting the development of a comprehensive financial architecture, and this catalogue is a direct result of this effort. have a technical assistance action plan. One and a half year. One and a half year. And, 15, so I'm really off on that, and so I'm really off on that, and I'm really off on that, and I'm really off on that. Si tratta non solo di banche di sviluppo, ma anche associazioni regionali come le associazioni africane, ALIDE in Latino America, APFIA in Asia. and support and we have the so-called incubator of projects. Last year we wanted to see what was the most pressing need in terms of technical assistance. and we have, so to speak, made a cartography of the different situations and the different technical assistance that was provided at the global level. This catalogue, which is available on our website, is therefore online. On the necessity of renewing and reforming the global financial architecture, we have already spoken about expressions like mixed finance, but in the end, we need projects that are bankable, we need competencies on the part of the... bank di sviluppo pubbliche. Abbiamo bisogno di una creazione di rete, quindi questo catalogo contribuisce a tutto questo. Troverete 25 programmi raggruppati in funzione delle regioni, dei paesi, ma anche dei fornitori di assistenza tecnica. And, too, this is for our 500 and plus development banks, so you are invited to visit our website for. Ho dimenticato di dire che la Cassa di Depositi e Prestiti fa parte del FIX e quindi ha fornito anche informazioni e dati per questo catalogo. Cerchiamo quindi con questo catalogo di aumentare la visibilità e di promuovere il coordinamento. in this way, we can also make the most of the available resources. You need to be able to access these resources to provide technical assistance, as has already been mentioned.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:39:26]:

Thank you very much. This has been really interesting. Parlare di tutti e tre i progetti, and to use the terminology that you've been talking about, e anche queste, questi, queste nuove buzzword come la finanza mista, blended finance in inglese, rendono anche il tema ancora più accattivante. Grazie, prima di passare la parola. ai giornalisti o a chi vuole fare domande. Visto che io vengo dalla OCSE, vengo dal centro di sviluppo della OCSE, anche noi condividiamo questa analisi secondo la quale il rafforzamento e il capacity building sono un elemento fondamentale And, therefore, the synergies that have been identified today during the panel are very interesting. We work with governments to generate comparable data on systems, and we do this with African and Asian countries. and facilitating access to kindness. facilitare anche l'accesso alle finanze e per rispondere alla call to action italiana, la OCSE, il comitato per la DAC della OCSE per l'assistenza tecnica insieme all'UNICEF, sta per lanciare un portale online che aiuterà o contribuirà a and to match the technical assistance offer with the needs of projects aimed at reaching or achieving the goals of Agenda 2030. I am very happy to have heard about this Italian initiative. It seems that to ci porti ad una maggiore sinergia, che è proprio quello di cui abbiamo bisogno, e ad offrire nuovi strumenti per far questo. Quindi speriamo di poter andare avanti e davvero rispondere alla call to action, al di là della scadenza di Siviglia. Sono quindi adesso a vostra disposizione. Ci sono dei microfoni. Se volete fare domande, potete semplicemente alzare la mano, presentarvi e dire a chi volete fare la vostra domanda. Qui vedo qualcuno a destra.


Africa Affari · Journalist · Michele Bollaro [1:42:51]:

Buongiorno. Sono un giornalista italiano, Michele Bollaro. lavoro per Africa Affari, un giornale specializzato sull'Africa e quindi ho una domanda specifica per il viceministro. Lo posso fare in inglese o in italiano?


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:43:12]:

Abbiamo l'interpretariato, quindi se preferisce può farlo in italiano.


Africa Affari · Journalist · Michele Bollaro [1:43:17]:

Lo farò in italiano.


Speaker 37 [1:43:20]:

Dear Deputy Minister, I thank you for your presentation. As you underlined this is in line with the Mattei Plan for Africa. At the same time, here in Seville, the African countries group is proposing reform to the global architecture, finance architecture. So I'd like to ask if this initiative that supports capacity building in African countries is a way to accompany this demand by African countries. And as a second question, you have mentioned that this initiative will focus on capacity building of civil servants. Have you already thought of extending it to civil society or private sector?


Italy · Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation · Edomondo Cirielli [1:44:27]:

As far as the first question is concerned, as it was highlighted during the panel, the Compromiso de Sevilla.

Has pinpointed capacity building as a way.

To make any kind of financing initiative more effective, making it more concrete and effective. So the issue of global finance architecture needs further work because not everyone has the same position right now. As far as the second question, we do have a series of initiatives that are focused on the private sector right now. The MaaTee plan for Africa as a central pillar on capacity building. We have signed an agreement with Italian universities that grant scholarships for the countries that are in partnership with Italy. So also the private sector was already strong enough So the Public School of Administration in Caserta was the ideal way to give a service to African civil servants, because we considered this as a more durable and long-lasting initiative and investment.


Kenya · Rafael Tienio [1:46:34]:

Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is not a question, but rather a comment. I am Rafael Tienio, I am from Kenya, and I would like to say that this is an initiative that we support Fortemente, e stiamo effettivamente abbiamo rilevato un grande. deficit in quanto a possibility of capacity building in Africa. There are many tools at our disposal, but we don't have the competencies to exploit them. So all the initiatives aimed at improving the competencies And so, no, but we need to, for example, in the scam be the debit, the swap, the debit, and I thought so, no, not a true statement, but it's a very positive for the nation, but it's a very positive for the nation, but it's not a capacity building.


ADB [1:47:59]:

I simply want to appreciate your comment. We have 110 members in our bank. We are called the Asian Development Bank, but we also operate in Africa and Latin America. I would like to say that with Kenya in particular, we have just signed an agreement contributing to our fund and is being... Ed è effettivamente il primo paese africano che contribuisce al nostro fondo, perché capisce l'importanza di questo fondo e quindi apprezziamo gli sforzi del Kenya. Ed io penso che i paesi africani, meglio di qualsiasi altro continente, capiscono benissimo l'importanza di spendere i soldi meglio, di avere le capacità e le competenze per poter portare avanti i progetti di finanziamento. Volevo riflettere sulle due domande e il commento. For the. Apprendimento tra pari vuol dire, per esempio, ho partecipato in riunioni con ispettori fiscali e siamo stati in grado di condividere esperienze fra i francesi, albanesi, keniani e tanti altri paesi.


Speaker 41 [1:49:56]:

And.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:49:56]:

We're very, we have a sense of urgency. It was, and So, this meeting in Seville is a sense of urgency. I would like to highlight that all the development banks at all levels, multilateral, regional and public, are very committed to the change, to a transition. But for this, we must ensure that we have sufficient time, sufficient resources, and sufficient competencies. It is also important to learn from each other. It is in this that capacity building consists. Learning from peers and exchanging practices can Permettere anche di implicare il fatto al settore privato, perché la. La motivazione, la razionalità dietro ai progetti alla fin fine è la stessa, ma dobbiamo anche cambiare marcia e dobbiamo cambiare mentalità. Non dobbiamo considerare che ci sia una divisione fra le banche pubbliche e le banche private, perché la razionalità deve essere la stessa. and I think this is necessary to create this alliance based on exchanges between professionals. I couldn't be more agreeable, coming from the... attorno a uno stesso tavolo, esperti, rappresentanti del settore pubblico, di paesi in via di sviluppo e di paesi sviluppati. in in parità e quindi effettivamente sessantadue chiedo scusa sessantadue anni più tardi e questo è è ancora più evidente.


Chair [1:52:19]:

E signor viceministro vorrebbe aggiungere qualcosa o abbiamo ancora forse tempo per un'ultima domanda


Ricardo Moro [1:52:35]:

I'd like to speak in Italian. My name is Ricardo Moro.


Speaker 45 [1:52:41]:

I belong to civil society movements, and I also write in Osservatore Romano on development finances. Debt is one of the central issues. In the previous few days, President Maloney, Vice Meloni has announced an initiative concerning debt. I'd like to ask you if you could articulate a little bit more about these initiatives that Prime Minister Meloni has announced, especially considering the involvement of local local authorities, but also local civil society organizations.


Italy · Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation · Edomondo Cirielli [1:53:35]:

Concerning the Prime Minister initiative, obviously we have to wait for her announcement, but the central pillar of all initiatives would be always this axis between debt, this relation between debt and development. But the idea is that this should not be decided outside of the countries. It shouldn't be other countries that decide what should be done in in the developing countries. So decisions so far have been taken in donor countries mainly with the mediation of the UN that have played a very positive role, but the participation of local communities and and developing countries in themselves has not been there. And this is the idea behind the Mattei Plan for Africa.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:54:54]:

Thank you very much.

I am telling you, this is the end. Many thanks. It's true that you were so concise that we still have time for one last question. If someone has a question of burning current relevance, there it is. Thank you very much. Can you introduce yourself?


Academic [1:55:31]:

Vengo dal Senegal e sono un'accademica. Allora, il capacity building è un'ottima idea, ma il trasferimento tecnologico, cosa ne pensa?


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:55:44]:

Trasferimento di tecnologie. Chi vuole cominciare? Cominciamo dalla destra e poi finiamo Col. viceministro.


Speaker 50 [1:55:55]:

Dunque, saper fare il proprio mestiere è un'ottima tecnologia. mastering the profession. Being able to master a profession, also, is an important asset. Being a good banker, a good tax inspector. Although we have included capacity building in our catalogue, we do not have individual to the technology transfer per se, come una possibilità, ma la possibilità di andare a trovare finanziamenti per progetti climatici, per progetti per la biodiversità, la conservazione della biodiversità. for the social and environmental protection. This is also a type of technology. What I want to say here is that the definition of competence is very broad and it is at the base of development. Obviously, when talking to the private sector, we should talk about technology transfer, but Io che parlo a nome della rete di banche pubbliche per lo sviluppo, abbiamo anche bisogno di ingegneri che siano in grado di stimare il ROI, il ritorno sugli investimenti di determinati progetti. E tutte queste competenze sono necessarie propedeutiche per un trasferimento tecnologico, quindi le competenze facilitano il trasferimento tecnologico. Grazie per la domanda.

Ebbene, io non vedo la differenza, francamente. Il capacity building include anche questi aspetti. Quello che dobbiamo evitare la crisi climatica che succeda la stessa cosa che è successo con la crisi del Covid, cioè che solo quei paesi che avevano accesso a determinate tecnologie potessero avere accesso ai vaccini. Per far questo bisogna ridurre il divario tecnologico. Quindi quando parliamo di capacity building Stiamo parlando proprio di questo. Ci deve essere un elemento di trasferimento tecnologico proprio insito nel concetto, quindi quando si parla di... capital and private. We're not talking only about private financing. We're talking about a transfer of technology from developed countries to developing countries. The question is how can we integrate the technological transfer within the capacity building and in the projects. So, the leadership of the African countries that says that we must do it, seems very relevant. So, one thing doesn't exist without the other, or it is complementary.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [1:59:45]:

Mr. Vice-Minister, you have the last word, please.


Italy · Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation · Edomondo Cirielli [1:59:54]:

Yes, obviously. It is a very relevant question. And Italy, with the Mattei Plan for Africa, is on the front line on this issue. We have launched a very important project with the UNDP, with the UN Development Program. With the creation of a hub for intelligent artificial intelligence that will be used for Africa and that will be available for both for private entrepreneurs and in all development initiatives Starting from the aerospace industry, all the way to agricultural projects, we always make sure that There is a training to transfer not only knowledge, but also technology. Also, even in Senegal, we have a very important project with the CIAM, an international organization that is based in Bari, on agricultural improvement works with another Italian partner called Bonifiche Ferraresi. And we will try to put in place new technologies. with also involving civil servants with an experience in entrepreneurship in Africa. It is a project that has been funded with so far 40 million euros, but that is due to expand and continue with the involvement of the private sector, therefore in a win-win situation.


OECD · Director of the Development Centre [2:02:16]:

Thank you very much, all of you, for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank.


GIZ · ATI Secretariat Coordinator · Stephanie Rauscher [2:15:32]:

Good afternoon, honorable ministers, distinguished officials, esteemed guests. My name is Stephanie Rauscher. I work for German International Cooperation, coordinating the secretariat of the Addis Tax Initiative on behalf of the Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development of Germany and the European Union. I am honored to welcome you today to the press facing event of the Addis Tax Initiative under the CEVI Platform for Action, an initiative which is co-led by the Gambia, Germany, Madagascar, Norway, and the European Union. I'm honored to introduce our high level speakers, Honorable Mrs. Reem Alabali Radovan, Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development, Germany, and Honorable Mr. Osmund Aukrust, Minister of International Development, Norway. Unfortunately, Honorable Minister, Mr. Sidi Kaita, Minister of Finance, The Gambia, has not arrived in Seville. due to logistical reasons. So, welcome, and with that, I would like to invite Mrs. Honorable Mrs. Rima Alabali Radovan to the floor.


Germany · Federal Minister for Economic Cooperation and Development · Reem Alabali Radovan [2:17:06]:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Compromiso de Sevilla, the outcome document of this conference, is an important landmark on the path to the SDGs. It shows that multilateralism is very much alive, despite the challenges that we're facing. And it underlines what we can achieve when we work closely together. But the work is not done yet. Now it's, of course, the time to implement what we have agreed in the compromise. Domestic revenue mobilization or DRM, is key. Higher domestic revenues can close a large part of the SDG financing gap. Effective and progressive tax systems are needed around the world. Germany is staying committed to supporting DRM and combating tax evasion globally. Currently, we are supporting 30 partner countries in mobilizing additional tax revenues. Strengthening tax policies and administration is one of the most cost-effective investments in development cooperation. Every dollar invested in this way brings several times the amount in domestic funds. This is especially important in times of shrinking ODA budgets in many countries. In this context, the Addis Tax Initiative's Seville Declaration on DRM is certainly timely. It renews and strengthens our joint commitment to step up our support for DRM. And it boosts the renewed framework on DRM set out in the outcome document on this conference. We, the lead implementing countries of the Civil Declaration, call upon all stakeholders to join the Addis Tax Initiative, ATI, and support the new declaration. The ATI has proven its value. In the recent years, more than two out of three ATI partner countries have successfully raised their revenues, for example, Senegal, Ghana, Mauritania, and Indonesia. They have expanded their tax base and increased their tax to GDP ratio. They can now invest more in public goods like health, education, and climate protection. As co-initiator, Germany has always been a strong supporter of the ATAI, and Germany will remain so in the future. The Civil Declaration provides a strong foundation for our future work because it focuses more on more than quantitative targets. It also addresses important issues of justice and solidarity. It emphasizes gender equality and environmental protection as important aspects of tax policy. And it strengthens international tax cooperation and the taxation of the super-rich. Ultimately, national governments can only combat tax evasion if the international tax system is also effective and fair. Together, we must ensure that everybody, including multinational companies and the super-rich, pay their fair shares in taxes. Germany stands ready to move this agenda forward. Thank you very much.


GIZ · ATI Secretariat Coordinator · Stephanie Rauscher [2:20:58]:

Thank you for your statement. I would like to hand over to Honorable Mr. Osmund Alquist.


Norway · Minister of International Development · Osmund Aukrust [2:21:10]:

It's great to be here, and even though I also have to be here very short because of other appointments, I think it was so great to be here and to be a part of this launching of the Declaration on Domestic Revenue Mobilization. And I really want to echo what my German colleague just said, and I completely agree with everything That was, that came from now from the German government. Norway, we are proud to be among the Addis Tax Initiative's founding members. And since it was launched 10 years ago, we have been studying, we have been a strong supporter of the issue of strengthening domestic resource mobilization and tax related development cooperation. And just as my colleague and friend just said, this was important before, but with the dramatic reduce of ODA funding globally, it's now even more important than ever before. Therefore, I'm so glad that we have launched this Sevilla Platform for Action that gives out four actions in the new declaration. And you can see them all here. The first one commits all countries to support domestic resource mobilization. The other one is about the partnership and the responsibility for a partnership program. And The next one, yeah, you can see it all on the sign. I would just say that when I'm presenting and I get a lot of questions about the Norwegian welfare system, and I'm sure also my colleague gets the same questions, especially as both of us represent the labour movement. I always say that the success of the creation of the Norwegian welfare system is not built up of our natural resources, it's built up on an inclusive tax system. where people are paying their tax, they have trust in the system and they get welfare back. Therefore, we also have this as a very high priority in our development agenda. In 2015, we pledged to double our commitments, and I'm very glad now, 10 years later, to say that this was not only achieved, it was actually achieved by 170%. So we have said that we should continue to support programs that will strengthen domestic resource mobilization. And of course, the main target is what's happening within different countries. And from the Norwegian side, we have a program called the Tax for Development. But it's also important with international discussions. And Norway, we will look forward to take active part in those discussions, both in the OECD and G20. in the UN framework on discussions on the international tax cooperation. So let me just conclude by saying that I think this is maybe the most important outcome of the declaration here in Sevilla. And it was a really touching moment this morning when we by consensus, except one country, were able to launch this final declaration from Sevilla. We are living in a really challenging time, but this showed us that when we really want it, we can stand together and we can stand up for multilateralism. And I think one of Domestic resource mobilization is definitely one of the most important issues of the follow-up work. And that was the good thing with having the agreement before we came here to Sevilla, was that we can use the whole week to discuss in which way we the best can follow this up. And I look forward to working with partners like Germany and others, and especially from the global south, from the Norwegian government side. So thank you so much.


GIZ · ATI Secretariat Coordinator · Stephanie Rauscher [2:25:33]:

Honorable ministers, thank you for your inspiring statements which highlighted the relevance of the Addis Tax Initiative and the importance of domestic revenue mobilization for sustainable development. In case you would like to learn more about the Addis Tax Initiative and the Seville Declaration on domestic revenue mobilization, would like to invite you to the ATI side event which will take place on 1st of July 4:30 to 6:00 p.m. room side event 2. This event will present the CV declaration on domestic revenue mobilization in greater depth and will provide a panel discussion on how questions can be implemented. I wish you fruitful for the meetings and discussion at the FFD4 conference. Thank you very much for your attention. Have an excellent evening.


Speaker 59 [2:26:27]:

Thank you.

Play all songs of the Kapil Sharma Show. Play all songs of the Kapil Sharma Show.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:22:09]:

Good. Well, hello and welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for coming to this special platform for action on financing social protection. I have to tell you, I'm really honored and delighted to be asked to moderate this session. not only because it is such a privilege to be with this incredible panel, but because we know that in a sense, financing for development, what are we financing? Why are we doing this? And in fact, the ability to finance social protection is really at the heart of a lot of the issues that we are concerned with today. And the inadequacy of that social protection is also something that has become more and more evident to us, not just during the pandemic, but well before that. In fact, even now, about 3.8 billion people, that's almost half of the world's population, have no form of social protection whatsoever. So whether they get hurt or injured, whether they fall sick, whether they are unemployed, they have no protection at all. We have about 3.3 billion people who are living in countries that are experiencing more debt service payments than they are paying for health and education put together. and we have even more people living in countries that are suffering austerity, fiscal austerity for adjustment measures. Now, all of this actually means that social protection has become a critical issue and the financing of social protection is particularly important because it is often seen as a soft target in many countries whenever there is, in fact, a budget concern, whenever there are fiscal issues and so on. So, we really do appreciate the fact that the outcome document of this particular, the Compromiso Sevilla, has actually recognized and put in a commitment to raise the coverage of social protection to 2% percentage points per year. It's a very important commitment, a real commitment that you can monitor. And it's very important, I would argue, to monitor not just the coverage, but the quality of the social protection that is being delivered. And I know that the countries that are represented here are very, very well aware of this, and that they can provide us with a lot of information, a lot of examples, but also inspiration for others who are thinking about how exactly they could go forward in implementing this. It is of course a particular pleasure to invite His Excellency Gilbert Ongbo, who I am a big fan of as the Director General of the ILO, to deliver his remarks about the importance of social protection for workers in general, but also for society at large. So please, Mr. Ongbo.


ILO · DG · Gilbert Ongbo [3:25:04]:

Thank you so much, Gertrude. First of all, thank you for accepting to moderate this session for us. In addition to thanking Brazil and South Africa, let me also thank the colleague from the Universal Social Protection, USP 2030, with whom we are collaborating very hard in this. Obviously, ILO, we are responsible to monitor one of the specific SDG 1.3.1 on the social protection. So I must admit that to have come to El Compromiso de Sevilla, where we really have this at least 2% point per year in terms of number of coverage, number of people that to be coverage to increase is quite very important for us. You mentioned it that we still have 3.8 billion people with zero, zero, zero protection. Although, yes, we have more than 51%, 52% of the population that maybe have at least some kind of protection, it's still that 3.8 billion is really difficult for us in ILO when we talk about social justice, when you talk about fighting inequalities, when you talk about social cohesion to think that we could have 3.8 billion people that are totally left, well, like, you know, you are on your own, which is really what we are fighting for. So for us, it's going to be very crucial in implementing the FFD4 to ensure that we put mechanisms in place to ensure that countries that are lagging behind, called every year increase the coverage by this 2%, at least. Obviously, we are mindful. So we're setting, honestly speaking, we're setting that the lowest possible. So it's kind of is the floor that each country will be encouraged to even go far beyond this 2%. And please don't tell me that it's not achievable or is too much ambitious, because we know also what several countries have done in recent years, particularly in working with institutions like ILO and others. Obviously, I'm very mindful that member states have so many priorities to juggle. I'm quite very mindful on that. This is why the whole discussion we are having since this morning become quite important. And thank you so much. And I know how strong, Jayati, you are on it in terms of linking this with how do you manage the debt. How do you really increase the fiscal space? How do you ensure that you put measure to avoid the tax avoidances? How do we ensure that we have this international cooperation for tax evasion and all those measures that we have to put in place to help member states to increase the fiscal space and therefore to increase the domestic revenue are going to help the countries. The last one that I wanted to mention, I've seen that all over the years that every time we have a crisis, any kind of crisis, of course, the social is always the first dimension to look for cuts on that. So I also want to make a plea and push for the fact that you know, by keeping the social protection at the core of our whole development agenda will help us avoiding or reducing this risk so that we could also make sure that in moving forward, we can better balance both the economic, the environmental and the social of our development.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:29:39]:

Thank you so much. Your Excellency, that was really terrific. And I think your emphasis on how really the bar is low, it's so doable. And there are so many countries who are doing more than that, which is why it's such an honor to have here two representatives of countries that are an inspiration, I have to say, to so many of us in the rest of the world. I mean, thank you, Brazil and South Africa. You have really provided us with some optimism in what can seem like a very dark world sometimes. So it's a great pleasure for to introduce Her Excellency Maropeng Ramaphofo, excuse my pronunciation. She's the Minister for Planning and Monitoring and Evaluation of South Africa, but also the chairperson of the G20 Development Working Group, which has a very important role to play in pushing for social protection. Please, Your Excellency.


South Africa · Minister for Planning and Monitoring and Evaluation · Maropeng Ramaphofo [3:30:31]:

Thank you very much, um, and we're really excited as South Africa to be part of this, uh, platform and this discussion and the dialogue that we're going to be having here today, we definitely are. excited precisely because we are currently the presidency of G20 and we are chairing, my department is actually chairing the development working group. Part of the priorities of course that we have, we've got three priorities and one of them is the social protection floors. We have done that precisely because we have an appreciation and an understanding that the issue of financing for development, or at least investing in social protection floors, is actually an investment in human capital. Because at the end of the day, whatever it is that we are doing, whether it's about the economy or it's about anything else that we do, it is precisely because people must then now be able to afford those things that must actually be protected under the protection flaws. So as a result, the investment in that becomes the number one thing that we do. In many countries, of course, you will find that the biggest expenditure or the biggest budget item, not expenditure, because then it becomes wrong, political to say it's just an expenditure, especially because I've just spoken about it as it being an investment as opposed to it being just something that is an expense. And I'm saying that precisely because in South Africa, if you can look, our number one biggest budget item is on social protection floors. That's what we do. Even when we went through a crisis during COVID-19 and we had to have a cut on our budget, we made sure that the issue of social protection floors is never touched, precisely because we had the understanding, and as I've already said, that whatever it is that you do, even if you create jobs, you increase the economy, at the end of the day, the end result of it should be access to health, access to education, to housing, which is exactly what we are talking about. But the other thing again that we are looking at is the fact that as you speak about development and development such as climate change, for example, in South Africa, we've got something that is called the just energy transition. But we are saying that as much as you are transiting to the greener energy that you should allow us to be able to adapt, but also to on the global stage, you also have to understand that the responsibility for social protection becomes important. And how do you do that? The issues of UIF, the issues of compensation fund, but most of all, the issues of re-skilling the people becomes important because if you talk about transition, but you don't talk about re-skilling, most especially those that need jobs the most or those that need intervention the most, you won't be able to transit in such a way that there would be economic progress and economic development and economic prosperity. So as a result, it becomes important to South Africa to say that whatever it is that is being done, if you cannot secure the social protection floors, then you would have failed because economic development, economic prosperity that has got no protection of those that need it the most, then at the end of we do believe that you won't be successful. So as a result, that is our position and that's what we believe in. But we also believe that globally, we have to take responsibility as a unit, collectively as a globe. And we're saying that precisely because if you don't deal with the issues of the debt burden that most countries, especially developing countries, in my region, for example, are actually facing, the issue of ensuring that our resource mobilization domestically is done adequately is going to be affected. And I do believe, I think you have spoken about the tax base and the tax regime globally as well, making sure that the issue of the ratio of tax to GDP is actually also dealt with. If we don't deal with such things globally as a unit and as a collective, we will then now be affecting our ability to invest more on a national level as it relates to what we agree upon, as it relates to social protection floors. So that would be our position as South Africa as we then now move forward to the G20. Thank you.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:35:14]:

Thank you. That was fantastic and so inspiring. And I'm so glad that you linked South Africa's own positive efforts and commitment to maintain and increase the social protection with a global order that is actually constantly trying to prevent you from doing that, which is a very, very important point and which is really why we're all here today. And again, we have another country that has shown a path, a really very impressive path in many different ways in terms of social protection. So great pleasure to introduce His Excellency Wellington Dias. He's the Minister of State for Social Development and Assistance, Family, and Fight Against Hunger in Brazil. And if you remember the Fome Zero campaign, the Zero Hunger campaign has been such an inspiration in many parts of the world, including in my own country, where we are really still struggling with this issue. So please, Your Excellency.


Brazil · Minister of State for Social Development and Assistance, Family, and Fight Against Hunger · Wellington Dias [3:36:15]:

Good afternoon. I would like to compliment the Director General of ILO and also Our moderator, our Minister Marabene, I'm very proud of you with this responsibility to direct G20 with not always specific issues. Brazil has lived recently the presidency of G20, and we are thankful to South Africa and all countries, India, and all countries that participated. I would like to say it's an honor to be here, and this proposal for coalition for the social protection 2030. It deserves from Brazil's part, together with Spain, Brazil is in the co-presidency of the fight against hunger. And I affirm that with Lula, I am representing Brazil, our support for the coherence of the proposal. for the importance of having jobs, decent jobs, formal jobs, and also in relation to guarantee and scaling up 2% per year for the protection of social protection. Brazil has like a mattress of social protection, is 94 million Brazilians. 216 million is the total of our population. 94 million participate of these social programs that we have in a very present way. We have some programs like the unique health system and the education one who attends any Brazilian from the richest to the poorest. So it needs to be done like a surgery of aneurysm. And if it costs $30,000, $50,000, so the unique health system pays for it. You need to guarantee the payment of university. For example, the medicine course, 200,000 per month. Who pays that? The unique education Brazilian system in the public system. And also for some years now, in the private sector as well. I say this because I want to call for attention that it's not a simple debate. Right now in Brazil, we have a wide debate where the president has assumed a compromise to put the poorest in the budget and to put the extremely rich in the income. So he did a proposal in the Senate, and we are looking for how to sustain this proposal, which is taxes on financial operations. So they don't pay taxes or they pay a little bit. People who earn a lot of money pay less than a teacher, a school teacher, or an engineer, or a journalist. So this is the debate that we want in the world, in a moment that the world has many other issues, to take out people from hunger and poverty. So I want to call for attention. The program, the social program, the strategy, it needs to be worked as a part of the development strategy, strategy for development, social development. So in the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty, this is what we're working. It needs to be treated as a part of the project of economic development. So two examples from my country right now. First of all, the country lived a period of a low growth, economic growth. So when Lula came into presidency, he adopted social policies like to raise the the minimum wage, so that people in their first employment could reach a condition of attending basic needs. It's the best program for the poverty. So this means to people that reach the employment, a condition to leave the misery and poverty. So we work with income transference and extra food to overcome hunger. And we have reached this two past years. a reduction around 24 million Brazilians that we found in the insecurity, food insecurity. I'm sure FAO has notes that we had this reduction in the food insecurity. I'm very optimistic. But we work, as I said, to overcome hunger And this can only be achieved, a safe floor, when we overcome poverty. And this is done by one side. We could it has to be done with the income, with jobs, decent jobs that brings security to workers. And also, entrepreneurship has to be present around the world, especially with new generations. Besides with having a job, they also dream of having entrepreneurship. Last year, with the example of 2023, we could achieve more than 1 million new jobs and around 4 million small jobs. So Lula is trying to achieve these people and giving them guarantee. Because how can the poor have a credit? So the government created this fund to sustain and give assistance, technical assistance. So a lot of people now want to become entrepreneurs. And from these jobs, 70% are from these micro jobs. So we support these small jobs and it generates jobs to other people. I want to say this to show a study in Brazil. The growth of Brazil last year around, the GDP grew around 3% per year. One third of this growth is the economy of the poor, the small holder, the small entrepreneur. It's the economy of the poorest. So what I wanted to say is that we embrace these two proposals, the need to elevate the floor to attend these people that are vulnerable with the social protection. And secondly, priorities for jobs, decent jobs, because I can also add that for entrepreneurship, it could be a way of protection for those who want to follow this path. Thank you.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:46:36]:

Thank you, that was absolutely fascinating and I really love the way you brought in the systemic issues of employment, of the quality of work. And the minimum wage thing is so important because it also has such a strong gender implication, because women are typically at the bottom of the wage hierarchy. So all of these, the fact that social protection is not just necessary in itself, but it's necessary macroeconomically and it has to be part of a broader economic package and an economic approach that fundamentally people friendly. I think it's very inspiring for all of us. So big thanks to all our speakers. And I'm going to open it up for questions and comments. Yes, please go ahead. There's a mic which will come to you right now.


ITUC · Julia Masobu [3:47:22]:

Thank you. Thank you very much for the opportunity. My name is Julia Masobu from the International Trade Union Confederation. I just wanted to welcome this initiative and to share that as ITUC, we are very happy to endorse the Sevilla Platform for Action. I also wanted to acknowledge the hard work of the ILO in getting this text into the document. I saw ILO colleagues working in the corridors in New York for several meetings, and that was really what made the difference, together with the alliances and support of many governments, including, obviously, South Africa and Brazil. As you have just said, for us, social protection is one of the pillars of what we call a new social contract. It's one of the four pillars of the Decent Work Agenda of the ILO. And it has been one of the key asks that as trade unions, we have been pushing for in the financing for development agenda since Addis, even before Addis. And I think having a clear percentage really helped us move forward. seen it as a floor, at least as we're saying. And I also think that the narrative that has been flagged as looking at investment in social protection as an investment in people, in rights, in the economy, rather than a burden, that's really helpful, I think, in order to bring more and more partners here. Then, as we said, SEWA doesn't stop in Sevilla. So I think The next appointment is Doha, Qatar. So as ITUC, we are pushing to bring this language into the political declaration of Doha. I think there are other elements, as you have just said, of Seville that we can and we must leverage connecting social protection to other parts of the document, investments in jobs, investment in the care economy, formalization, skills. wages, you mentioned wages, and this is something that is not in the outcome document of Seville, but that is in the current draft of the Doha political declaration, and we will fight to have living wages there, we will fight to have equal pay for work of equal value. So in a nutshell, you can count on the ITUC also to bring it back to the national level in the 170 countries where we have affiliates. Thank you very much.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:49:37]:

Thank you, that's great. In fact, the idea that this is actually a movement, not just a few countries getting together is a fantastic idea. So I think we should see this, as you said, as the beginning of something, not necessarily even just towards Doha, but a platform for action where more and more countries can get involved. That's fantastic. So, yes, please. And then in the back. Yes, please.


Uzbekistan · First Deputy Minister · Ilhom Norkov [3:50:02]:

Hi to everyone. My name is Ilhom Norkov from Uzbekistan. I represent the Minister of Economy and Finance, First Deputy Minister. And first of all, I want to thank for organizing this interesting panel. And going to the main topic of this panel, I want to say that, you know, listening to the previous speeches of global leaders today and the new commitment that we are going to take in the Sevilla agenda, I think it is impossible. And are we ready to do it? I think we are ready and we have grown up. Yes, today some leaders were saying that back in 2015, when global SDGs were announced, at that time the period was different. The world has changed, it became more difficult, but We have learned a lot. I'm just talking in the case of our own country, my own country, and there are globally a lot of good lessons. And are we ready to re-engineer based on the experience and the lessons? This is the question. And just in our own country, a case in 2020, when we announced first time that power reduction as a main problem of the government policy when a new leadership came. In just five years, even during the COVID period, we were successful to overcome the difficulties because of the, based on the global cooperation and the partnership from the UN agencies, IFA, all IFIs, I mean the MDBs, that we took all these lessons and then we tried to draw our own agenda. And it is more about efficiency. Today the King of Spain was telling that the efficiency has to be the main word. And this is exactly the important thing, I think. And I just want to say we have grown up. Why? Because we are ready to do this, because there are already platforms, just a global accelerator that ILO, you know, initiated.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:52:37]:

I'm so glad you mentioned the global accelerator, Your Excellency. I've just been told we have less than five minutes left.


Uzbekistan · First Deputy Minister · Ilhom Norkov [3:52:44]:

I will take one more minute because this is very important. And I will tell you, you know, in a roadmap, we joined this global accelerator in 2020. And thanks to this accelerator, we've developed a roadmap which has four key pillars and blocks. The first one is reducing the informal sector. This is very important. By reducing the informal sector, you don't only increase the tax base, but you identify the really vulnerable group of people. And you also do a targeted policy, increase the social policy. The second one is the financial inclusion. And we did just re-engineering based on the experience. And I'm not talking about the digital and the green jobs, but these kind of platforms are there already. And we have grown up. We don't need much resource. Even with some addition of existing resources, good coordination such.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:53:42]:

As-- So we have one more question at the back. So if you don't mind, I'm so sorry, Your Excellency, because it's a very short program. with her question and then I would like to bring it back to our audience. But thank you so much. These are very, very interesting examples. Please.


HRW · Lena Simmet [3:54:00]:

Thank you very much.

My name is Lena Simmet.

I work with Human Rights Watch.

We, of course, applaud this initiative of advancing universal social protection, but two things we would like to highlight is the ambition of the two percentage points, which we are concerned that in some countries and some regions where coverage is currently extremely low, it will take multiple decades to reach near universality. So again, considering that the right to social security is a universal human right, we think that ambitions should be much higher. On top of that, it currently doesn't say much about the adequacy of social protection. So we don't only need to strive for more universality, but also for more adequacy when it comes to benefits. And finally, I think the role of the international financial institutions is really critical here. As we've heard early in the morning in the opening remarks, that there continues to be a focus on highly narrow poverty targeted programs, which are not universal in nature and often have been counter to develop universal systems.


Speaker 74 [3:55:14]:

I do that here, but thank you.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:55:16]:

Thank you. There is one more question, if I may, very, very quick. It has to be like half a minute, if possible, because we are already at time.


Nicola Wieber [3:55:26]:

Thank you. My name is Nicola Wieber. I'm working with the Global Coalition for Social Protection Floors, and I would also like to congratulate you and.

And give you a lot of push back from the civil society as well to take this forward. And we would like to have two things, to commit to the northern governments to create an enabling environment, creating more global.

Justice to enable countries to finance the social rights in their countries and to go ahead.

Towards universal social protection systems.

Thank you.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:56:01]:

Thank you. I think some important questions are being raised about adequacy in addition to coverage, about the role of the global system. And so if you would like to have very brief responses, maybe we just go in order. Yes.


South Africa · Minister for Planning and Monitoring and Evaluation · Maropeng Ramaphofo [3:56:20]:

Mine is not going to be much because I think there were more contribution that we can actually use. But in terms of adequacy, of course, everyone has just been talking about a better coordination, but to also come up with measurable inputs so that we don't just come up with what we believe is ideal, but we come up with what we know when we measure, we can then now be able to see impact. So meaning that whatever it is that we are putting in place, that would be bringing us an an action point, should then now the first thing that we should ask ourselves is it measurable? But then if it is measurable, how are we going to know if it is successful? Precisely because all countries and all sectors are different from one another. Therefore, whatever it is that we are going to measure will not necessarily be at the same level as much as it should be. We should strive for universal coverage as it relates to that. But also equally, so I think it's quite important to say What do we do with the informal sectors that are actually at risk at the end of the day?


Moderator · Gertrude [3:57:27]:

Thank you. And Your Excellency, please.


ILO · DG · Gilbert Ongbo [3:57:31]:

Let me very quickly mention two things addressing the issue about the adequacy and the ambition. I'm not at all worried about it, to be quite honest with you. Not only in the document you will see that we talk about at least 2% points, but secondly, Practically speaking, once ILO starts working with member states, obviously it's not just about numbers. You look at the quality, the adequacy, and how it's also taking into account the situation of the country. So it's not just like top down, it's taking up from the reality that we have on the ground. And it's going to be important that once you are able to kick off with that 2%, obviously, then you look at the ability of the country to move ahead, knowing very well the current debate on whether the SDGs are too ambitious or not. So it's a matter of having the right balance at all. So I'm not really worried on that. We will continue that fight.


Moderator · Gertrude [3:58:38]:

And Your Excellency, Mr. Dias, please.


Brazil · Minister of State for Social Development and Assistance, Family, and Fight Against Hunger · Wellington Dias [3:58:44]:

Thank you to all of you. So the question from Lina. I want to say that one of the main points of the Global Alliance is to accelerate with countries with more difficulty. Today we have 192 in members fighting against hunger, countries that make their plans and could help other countries with knowledge, financial knowledge, and in many other ways, and other countries that are in development that could give their support. So here today in Seville, we had the presentation of the first national plans. Palestine, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Tanzania, Haiti, Kenya, Zambia presented today their national plans, and many others are currently going on. It doesn't matter if it's a country, organism, the northern countries, all those who want to help their plan, in the state plan, this is the fundamental point. And also, ILO also has an important-- I just want to thank ILO for this challenge. You can count with Brazil. Brazil is ready to support. Lula has asked me to come here to represent Brazil and to say that Brazil is ready to support and be a partner in order to achieve a decent work and also support so that we can reach this growth of 2% per year in order to improve social protection. Thank you very much.


Moderator · Gertrude [4:01:07]:

Incredibly rich discussion for just half an hour. And I also found it extremely energizing and inspiring. So once again, a big thank you to all our speakers. And thank you to ILO for taking this forward.