Pekka Haavisto (Personal Envoy of the Secretary-General for Sudan) on the situation in the country - Press Conference

Great. Good afternoon. We're delighted to be joined in person by Pekka Havisto, who you all know as the Secretary-General's Personal Envoy for Sudan. He will have some opening remarks and then we'll take some questions. Mr. Havisto, over to you.

Thank you and good afternoon, everyone. And I really have been in this task now a little bit more than 3 months and had several visits to Khartoum and also to countries of the region and doing mainly this kind of shuttle diplomacy at the moment. My office is in Addis Ababa. Maybe—

Yeah, speak a tad louder. If you can up the volume in the room a little bit.

Okay. So my first comment is actually about the current situation in El Obeid. Let me start with that. It's a city in North Kordofan and the situation has been in the recent days, really very concerning. We are alarmed of the ongoing hostilities around the city, including frequent drone strikes, and these are already affecting the civilians and affecting to humanitarian aid to the city. And a further escalation of the situation would place thousands of people at the risk. Unfortunately, the situation reminds a little bit of the earlier developments in Darfur and around al-Fasr and reminds that there are immediate risks for the civilian population. I actually had a telephone call with General Hemeti on Friday on this issue, and I said that all the eyes of the world are now on al-Obeid and following what's happening there. And he confirmed to me that his intention is not to harm the civilians and his intention is to protect the humanitarian corridors to the city and so forth. And this is something that we have to now follow as exactly as we, we can. And of course, the Secretary General himself has paid attention to this issue, and during the weekend there was the statement of the Security Council. I think it's very important that we follow the coming days, what's happening there. Then some broader developments in Sudan. Of course, unfortunately, the war is still ongoing. And particularly, the using of the drones as part of the conflict has been increasing, and the drone attacks against civilians and civilian infrastructure has been increasing. And again, this is something that we should pay attention. And of course, the drones are not Sudan-made, they come from the international market, and all ways and means to affect, to access to this kind of technologies, of course, should be looked at in this situation. Then something about my own activities. As you know, we are part of a quintet together with the African Union, IGAD, League of Arab States, European Union, and United Nations. And we have been so far successfully convening meetings of the political groups and political parties and civil society, first in Berlin this spring, first time for 3 years. And then after Berlin, we convened a meeting in Addis Ababa. With a similar basis. And this is the first time in 3 years' time when political parties and political actors are coming together and trying to solve the conflict and trying to find a common ground for the peace process in Sudan. And I think this is already good news, but of course we are continuing with these groupings. And my intention is to go next week to Nairobi, meet some of those actors and so forth, and then during this summer also get more engaged with Chad, South Sudan, and Uganda, who always— all of them have a role in this conflict. So some kind of mediation efforts are ongoing. Of course, our hope is that the Quad, consisting United States, Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, could advance with the humanitarian truce, which would help a a lot the civilian situation on the ground, but also help a lot our other goals to have a peaceful solution to the conflict, and it could and should start with the humanitarian truce. So I will finish here and ready to answer your questions. Thank you.

Great.

Thank you. Edie? If you could keep it to one question, because I know Mr. Evans doesn't have tons of time and I want to get as many questions in as possible.

Thank you very much, Mr. Avistu, on behalf of the United Nations Correspondents Association for doing this briefing. My name is Edith Lederer from the Associated Press. You sounded slightly optimistic about the fact that the political parties have came together earlier this year. And you're trying to keep that going. What are the chances for more significant meetings and a major attempt to end the fighting after so many years and so many deaths? And in the group of countries that you named, that were part of this. I don't think I heard the United States. Have they been a part of this effort? Thank you.

Let me— thank you for the question. Let me first start with the last part of your question. United States is part of the Quad group together with Saudi Arabia, Emirates, and Egypt. And Mr. Bulos, as a special envoy, has been actively engaging on this issue. I actually had— I'm coming from Washington and I had a good discussion with Mr. Boulos and we will continue our close cooperation with United States as well. Is there some hope in the end of the tunnel? Of course, it depends how you look at— one of the issues that we are trying to confirm with the parties is that there's no military solution to the conflict. It looks like both of the parties, General Hemeti, General Burhan, still think that something can be achieved militarily in this conflict. And conflict unfortunately goes on as long as somebody thinks that he or she or the group can achieve something through the military means. And this is unfortunately still the situation. But we are trying our best. And luckily, the countries of the region and countries who can influence to these parties do not believe to military solution anymore. Of this conflict, and that was very clear when I visited the Gulf area, visiting Riyadh, visiting Abu Dhabi, visiting Qatar, and so forth. It was a very clear message that they don't believe that a military solution is doable in this conflict.

Thank you. Bisan Ahmed, then Amelie.

Thank you very much. Bisan Abu Quake with Al Jazeera Arabic, right here. Just going back to the phone call that you had with General Ahmadi and The assurances that you say he gave you that he will not, uh, harm civilians, given that he is sanctioned, um, by the US, by the EU, and, um, the war crimes that the RSF are accused of committing over the past few years, um, what makes you very confident that he will not harm civilians in Al-Abiad?

Well, in the conflict of Sudan, nothing makes me very— or nothing can be said as very sure issue. But of course, what's happening now in this shuttle diplomacy is that we are contacting the both parties regularly and we are talking to the both parties and other actors regularly in Sudan. And this is part part of the UN mediation efforts and UN efforts to try to find a political solution to the crisis. So far, they are picking our calls. So far, they are welcoming us to meet them and on both sides. And I think that's already some development, what we are doing on this regard. And my strategy has been to always react immediately when something negative happens. Now, I took up the example, as you all abide, but earlier, for example, when the renewed drone attacks to Khartoum against the capital started to happen, I again picked the phone and said that this is something that the international community will not tolerate because UN is now back to Khartoum. We are— our humanitarian actors are back to Khartoum. It's not the right way to attack the Khartoum airport or other targets in Khartoum to again create a situation where humanitarian community would have to withdraw from its key activities. This is something that we can do at this moment and we are doing our best.

Ahmed, then Amélie, and then Ibtissem.

Thank you very much. Your microphone, your microphone. Thank you very much, Ahmed, for the ATN News. Mr. Havishtu, with atrocities continuing in foreign actors still get involved and they prolong the war, and no clear political endgame in the horizon. Is the UN still leading a serious political process in Sudan, or has its role been reduced to managing humanitarian consequences? And what will count as a political progress in the next 3 months? Thank you.

Well, first of all, my role as personal envoy of Secretary-General is particularly to concentrate on the political process and try to facilitate the political process, talking to each and every party, talking to those who are inside the country and who are in diaspora and who have left the country. And that is what I've been the last 3 months doing. And we have been, as mentioned, we have been successfully getting the opposition parties and political parties gathering in Berlin, in Addis Ababa, and also parties and groupings from the government-controlled areas. And that's already something compared with earlier developments. What is the timetable of, of this political process? What's— what can be achieved and in which time? There still remains unsure. Of course, it's depending on the political commitment of the political parties and, and this kind of idea what the transitional government in the future of Sudan would look like. What is actually interesting that all parties in the country and outside of the country are speaking about civilian government in some timetable. But how we form that is something that is up to the negotiations, and this is what we are trying to do.

Thank you. Amélie Ibtissem, Efraïm, then Linda.

Q: Thank you. Amélie Bâtelier from AFP news agency. Could you give us— can you give us some more detailed information about what is going on in Al-Ubayd right now? Because it's difficult to know. I mean, what makes you and all the UN system so worried about what's going on there? And why are you worried, especially that it is going towards a repetition of al-Fashir? Thank you.

Well, what's happening in Al-Obaid, based on all the information coming from our own UN agencies and other humanitarian actors on the ground, is gathering of the troops, possible isolation of the city, which is full of civilians and refugees. And this makes us very worried and very concerned if the military action will concentrate against Al-Obaid or some kind of siege of Al-Obaid, what would happen that would affect thousands of civilians who are in the city currently or who have been seeking refuge actually from the city. This makes us concerned. And why we are alarming of this is actually our previous experience in Sudan and Darfur and El Fasher, that there were attacks which harmed civilians and made a humanitarian disaster. So this is what we are afraid of.

Thank you. My name is Ibtisam Azim, Al Arab Al-Jadeed newspaper. I have first a follow-up on one of your answers. You said that you, um, that the warring parties, uh, they still think that they can win the war through military action. My question here is, what do you think they are Based on what? Like, why do they believe that? And then my question is, from your meetings, uh, what would you say the greatest obstacles, uh, to reach an agreement? Thank you.

Well, thank you for the questions. First, on, on issue on military victory or military advancement, that both parties still have some hope that this would solve the conflict to their benefit. We sometimes, when we speak about the two generals, we simplify the situation a little bit too much because behind these two generals are, of course, not only other generals, but other political movements and groupings like Al-Hilous group that is on the Hemeti side, or Mini Minawi and Dr. Gibril, who's not only as persons, but whose fighters are on government side. And of course, when speaking to Hemeti or speaking to Burhan and trying to reach the peaceful solution, there are behind them people who they have to consult of the situation and so forth. And some of these fighters might be successful in some of the fronts and so forth. So it's a very complex network of actors and so forth. Your other question was— Sorry, I—

What are the greatest obstacles for reaching an agreement?

Well, one obstacle definitely is that if you think that you can still militarily achieve something, you are not so eager to make a peace deal. But my personal view on the humanitarian truce and what's the obstacle there is the question of the day after. When you ask the parties, are you ready for the humanitarian truce? The question, counter-question will immediately be that what's happening day after, you know, where are the administrative borders, will there be parallel governments, how will the transitional period look like, what's my role in the transitional period, and so forth. And all these are answers that maybe the Quad that has been advocating humanitarian truce has not been preparing so much that kind of answers. Through the Queen Network with African Union and IGAD and League of Arab States, we probably have better answers how the transitional period could look like and how the international community could support the transitional period. So this is maybe one perspective to your question.

Efraim, then Linda, then Stefano, then Nassiz.

Thank you so much, Mr. Havishto. My name is Efraim Kosaifi. I'm with Arab News Daily. Mr. Havishto, this is not the first time that you take up a mission to Sudan. You've been working on Sudan for a while. You were the EU envoy to Sudan. You were also— you worked on the Darfur peace process. And now here you are again trying to play part in the— trying to get these parties to stop fighting. My question for you is, what has it changed really in your dealing with a group like the RSF? We spoke to human rights defenders that, you know, they described them as structured only to inflict violence and famine on people, and structures since the Janjaweed that are still being used by regional actors. So what has changed today? Do you, in dealing with them, do you feel they are more emboldened by the situation in the world as it is right now? What gives you hope after what you have seen throughout these years and the number of genocides that this time something is going to come out?

Well, this is an excellent question, and of course there are sometimes very little hope in Sudan because of the history of the fighting, because of these human rights atrocities that has happened, and so forth. And let me take another perspective to that question. I have been— or what gives me hope— I have been sitting with the women's group, not only in Port Sudan, but in Cairo and in Nairobi, people who have escaped the conflict or are living in the middle of the country currently, but have a fresh memory of the atrocities that has happened. And many of these women, basically, the first sentence is that they will never forgive what has happened and the human rights atrocities. But then the next sentence already is that there has to be some kind of reconciliation process, and that they have to learn how the reconciliation happened in South Africa and in other contexts where reconciliation was needed. And this gives me some hope that people who have been going through the worst human rights violations and so forth are still thinking that the United Sudan one day needs also reconciliation process, and they are ready themselves to invest to that, that kind of process. Or meeting with the youth and young, young people— we were actually in a school that was just reopened in Khartoum, and young 11 to 13 years old girls were there. And still big holes on the walls based on the bombing, and roof was down, and so forth. And of course, it was heartbreaking to see the young girls in such school conditions. And then I asked, what would you like to have in this school? What are you in need of? And the first answer was that, can you bring us some solar panels because we don't have electricity? Electricity. And somehow, you know, it was quite touching moment that girls, for their studies and for the school to be run, were asking, can international community bring some solar panels? And school was totally ruined and they didn't have books or materials and so forth. So to see these people actually— of course, war has been taking many years of their lives, but they are ready to continue. So it should be a responsibility for international community also to continue continue and help them as much as we can.

And on the difference between the Janjaweed and the RSF, what changed? How is dealing with them now?

Well, somebody come— I asked someone that how many different militias you have counted in Sudan, and the answers have been varying from 100 to 140 militias. And, and this is the mosaic of Sudan. It's, it's a typical phenomenon, and, and Unfortunately, as she's right, this is a lot of human rights violations have happened. But also we have to start from that, that the leaders of these groups have to have a certain responsibility, and we have to appeal to these people that they have to follow the norms of the warfare. There are international legislation on these kind of issues, and we should make it known that we follow what these groups are doing.

Thank you.

Linda Stefano in Dizis.

Linda Fasulo, NPR at the UN. My question is, you mentioned that there's obviously a big, larger network of leaders and militias involved in this conflict. Right now you have the Quad, the US, Saudi Arabia, and the Emirates, and Egypt. Are there any other countries, you know, that might have some influence that are not currently involved in, you know, in these discussions?

Well, there was actually— when you look back, when was the last successful meeting of these parties of the conflict? Actually, in Jeddah, organized by Saudi Arabia, was the Jeddah Agreement, and which Saudi Arabia quite often refers to that day. That was the last agreement between the parties, and there's a question: can something be built on the Jeddah Agreement, and can it be part of the future peace agreements and so forth. This is something that is discussed. At the same time, I have been counting maybe 10 different non-governmental organizations working for peace in Sudan. It's the Pro-Mediation, it's HD, Humanitarian Dialogue, it's CMI, it's Sande Gideon, it's Carter Center, and sorry that I cannot remember all of them. And then there's a question that are there too many cook— cooking now the peace agreement. My answer to that is that everybody is welcome to— for the capacity building for civilians, capacity building for different political parties and groupings to form the future of Sudan. But of course, one of my tasks as a UN representative is to try to coordinate these efforts and so forth. And I'm happy always— it's all true that everybody wants to coordinate and nobody wants to be coordinated.— and that's unfortunately sometimes the case also in Sudan. So I try to contact all these different actors and try to get them to play the same game and use the best capacities of all these organizations and the governments who are supporting them. And I think everyone is needed, but the coordination is good, because otherwise we go to this kind of forum shopping that sometimes when we contact the parties and say it would be nice if you come to Addis Ababa, but they say no, no, we are going to Kigali or we are going to we are going to Nyon, Switzerland, or we are going to Biltong Park or something like that, and it would be very helpful to have this coordination function, and we are on the way doing it now.

Stefano, Aziz, Zeena, and Dulcie, and then we'll close it up.

Thank you. Stefano Vaccara, Edelpress. My question is about the fact that the war in Gulf had on your job in Sudan.

Um, do you think that that crisis kind of helped in the sense that especially countries involved in the Gulf were at that point more eager to help you to stop this crisis, or the contrary, didn't have any effect on

Q: That's a good question, and maybe we haven't seen it all yet because the Iran and Gulf situation of course continues, but I was actually visiting Gulf countries exactly the time when the Strait of Hormuz was up and it was obvious that Sudan was not the first priority in these countries at that moment, and I understand that very well, but at the same time their interest The Gulf countries' interest to Sudan and solution in Sudan was there, and we had the possibility to discuss different kind of options and different kind of solutions. But of course, how the conflict is influencing to realities on the ground in Sudan— the price of the oil and gasoline is rising, the price of the fertilizers are rising, the use of the fertilizers maybe goes down.— it will affect the agricultural production and probably in the worst case will create famine in the country and so forth. So all these economic impacts are huge, of course, from the crisis. I have to also add that one— I was in an IGAD seminar in Nairobi and one economic researcher said that actually the war economy has been very profitable for Sudan. You know, gold— price of the gold has been high up and market is still functional and so forth. And I think when we are making the peace in Sudan, we have to pay special attention to the economic factors and how to make also peace profitable for all the actors.

Aziz, then Zina, then Dossi.

Thank you, Stéphane. Thank you, Mr. Aby Souf, for doing this.

You can put the microphone a little closer.

Okay.

Aziz Rami for the Moroccan Press Agency, MAP. You said that the two warring parties are still— they still believe that they can achieve something through military means. How does that square with the efforts and the optimism of the possibility of achieving anything in the negotiating table? Do you think— do you believe that the parties are committed sincerely to these negotiations, or are they just kicking the can?

Well, that's something, of course, we are all the time assessing, that how serious is the commitment and how the internal dynamics in the parties works, because there are, as I explained, there are not only the generals themselves, but people who are backing them and people who represent some particular interest or particular region or particular marginalized people and so forth in their camp. And we are talking also people in the generals, both generals' camps, so to say, and try to engage with them and try to do our best, of course, to explain what the peaceful development would bring to you. You might think that you have achieved something by fighting, but our question, of course, is that if you cannot provide decent living for your population, if you don't kind of provide schooling for children, if you if you cannot provide healthcare for your people, what have you achieved through the fighting? Actually, that these social responsibilities are, are there and should be taken seriously. And of course, it's also positive to say— you asked about the optimist— that, for example, reconstruction in Khartoum by citizens themselves has started. So not the city center itself, it's still ruined, but in Omdurman, in the suburb of Khartoum, you can see that life is getting back. People are renovating the houses, businesses are coming back, restaurants are opening, shops are opening. So people have very good capabilities after the conflict still to invest to their life and livelihoods and so forth. And that raises some optimism in this desperate situation.

Zina, then Dorsey, and then we'll close.

Zina Bilgacin for IEM and Free and Homeland News. My question is, you are talking about gathering the parties and the forces involved in this conflict. Did you come up with any kind of solution? And the other question, meeting the special envoy, Mr. Polis, in Washington, did you get any suggestion together, for example, dividing the country or sharing power between the parties in conflict, as there is no solution so far? So far, thank you.

Well, of course, we were informed by Mr. Bulos about the progress in the Quad and the discussions in Quad because US is member and we are not a member, member, but the division of the country or accepting the situation with the two parallel governments or in the long term as a system, country with two armies and so forth is impossible to think about.. And that has been, of course, the starting point also for the UN and UN mediation. There should be one Sudan. Its borders should be respected. Its sovereignty should be respected. There should be a Sudanese-owned, Sudanese-led process in the end of the day. And what we are trying to do as United Nations and as Sir Koenig, that of course is helping Sudanese to find a path towards that kind of future. And that's our starting point.

Uh, thanks very much. I just wanted to clarify, so you're not a member of the Quad, but you are a member of the Quintet, right?

Yeah, that's correct. That United Nations is not, not in the Quad, but United Nations is one of the five in the Quintet.

But how do they work together, if they do at all?

Well, well, we change information. As I told, I have been visiting just also the Gulf area and talking to Emirates and talking to Saudis. And of course, I have been to Cairo talking to Egyptians, talking to Americans. So this is— and we share the goal, actually. The goal is the humanitarian truce, and we are very much in favor of that. We are supporting that because we think that that would allow the humanitarian access to people who have been suffering now without any help from the international community. Then the political part that the Queen, that is trying to prepare political talks, hopefully some kind of national dialogue process in the future, political talks between the opposition and government and so forth, of course, is something that is easier to implement when the humanitarian truce is there. And that's, that's what, what we are doing.

Can I ask you, is the UAE still backing the RSF with weapons and other support?

Well, of course, we don't have all the details of the— we are— our assessment are based on the public domain and public news that we have of the situation. And it seems that both parties have still sources for military equipment and newest drone technology and so forth. And that's, of course, unfortunate in in this conflict.

Great.

Mr. Aviso, thank you very much for coming by. We hope to see you soon. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for your questions.