Nordic ministers' panel: Join us in Pushing for Progress! (CSW69 Side Event)

It is day one of CSW69. How is it going so far? Do you know, you anticipated what I was gonna ask you next, 'cause I wanted you to articulate your mood that you have at this moment in the echo sock chamber. I will give you some alternatives, options for making the sound that will coincide with what you feel. I don't know if we need cheering. I don't know if that's too soon on day one. Light applause, loud applause, ululating, or maybe quiet crying in the corner, that might be your mood. But on the number three, please let me hear how you're feeling right now. One, two, three. Do you know, I like that. We can build on that. You've given us something to work with. This is pushing for progress. It is organized by the Nordic Council of Ministers, who care passionately about gender equality and LGBTI, moderated by me, Femi Oke, attended by you. I appreciate you doing so. There's so many places you could be this afternoon. Thank you to everybody who is following online. We really appreciate you. So, I am going to ask you to lean into this conversation. For the past 30 years, the international community has been working for the progress of gender equality, and we're looking today at what threatens that progress and what we do about it. The ministers you are seeing sitting in front of you are doing a lot regarding that progress. They are not put back or pushed back, and they are going to help us focus on what do we do next. Ministers, we appreciate your service and look forward to hearing from you. I'm gonna introduce them one by one. I will say their four names and their ministerial titles to the best of my ability for a South Londoner with an indigenous accent. And the ministers are very, very graceful and will allow me to do that. And then, as is the tradition in the Nordic region, I will call them by their first names. Do not be horrified. We have agreed to do this. I am not being a subordinate. All right. So, the Minister for Social Security in Finland, Sanni Grann-Ellasson, welcome. Thank you. The Minister for the Environment and Gender Equality in Denmark is Magnus Heinecke. Welcome. I'm getting thumbs up for pronunciation. The Minister of Justice for Iceland is Thorbjörg Gúlaugsdóttir. The Minister for Gender Equality and Working Life in Sweden is Paulina Brandberg. The State Secretary, Ministry of Culture and Equality in Norway is Arland Hatzvik. Arland, what was your internal voice saying as I pronounced your name? Please say it again. You thought it was a good effort? And say what I was really trying to say.

You were trying to say Arland Hanstveit.

Exactly.

Close enough, yeah.

Exactly! You read my mind. And finally, the Minister of Environment, Housing and Labour Market for the Faroe Islands is Margit Strøghraa. And now we're on good terms. They're all my friends. Thank you, ministers, for being my friends. And now we'll be on first name terms. I am thinking, ministers, this is our first thought here. What concerns you most about the global pushback of gender equality, LGBTI rights? What are you worried about? Sunny, please go first.

First, I want to say that it feels very good to be here, sitting next to my dear Nordic colleagues, friends, sisters, brothers. We work very closely together, and Nordics are always very pro-gender equality. That's in the DNA of our societies. And no quiet crying today, because as the General Secretary Guterres said, antidote is action. And that's what we need. And that's why Nordic ministers are asking you to join us in pushing for progress when it comes to gender equality. But as we've seen and as we all feel, going backwards is no longer just a theoretical risk. It's a political fact in many places in the world. And as we've read, one in four countries reported backlash on women's rights last year. So this means that something needs to be done, and this all begins from this CSW meeting. I think we need hope, and we need actions, and we need new alliances, new coalitions pushing forward progress in gender equality. And that's why we're here, and I hope you all will join us in pushing for progress.

Magnus, there's that old question about what keeps you up at night, but you are so experienced, I don't think you have sleepless nights, but you're going to have concerns, right, about this pushback for gender equality. What would be your biggest concern right now?

Yeah, well, My biggest concern is that I'm a father of two teenage daughters, they are 17 and 19 years old, and right now, i cannot promise them that they are going to live in a world that is keeping on moving forward, that actually the rights that are so basically And I'm talking about fundamental human rights. A woman to be able to decide if she wants to have children, when, how many, with who, all of that is now at risk in many parts of the world. And what we've been fighting on for two or three decades We can see now it's pushed back in two or three weeks, and that is what's keeping me up at night. That's why I'm here today.

Can you imagine what it would be to change, say, 30 years of progress in three weeks? Are we just talking about money here?

No, we are, actually, we are talking about I think maybe we have been asleep, we took it for granted. We thought that this was such an integrated part of who we are and the societies and our institutions that we maybe stopped discussing and stopped fighting, and suddenly we see the earth moving beneath our feet. So, that's why we're here, all of us, and that's why the Nordic countries are really now reaching out to all parts of the world, say, help us to push for this progress. We really need this.

Margit, for the Faroe Islands, from your specific viewpoint in the Faroe Islands, what would be for gender equality, an example that you would give us that's saying, well, this wasn't an issue five years ago, but it's an issue now, and this is why we're worried about it.

Thank you. Well, I think we all see it. Laws are being rolled back, misinformation is spreading, and anti-gender movements are gaining strength. And that's frustrating, but it is not surprising. Change always meet pushback. But resistance doesn't mean we stop, it means we step up. We must engage not just with those who agree with us, but also with those who don't. And I believe that is key, to engage and talk to those who don't agree with us. It is easy to talk in spaces like this. But real impact happens outside our echo chambers.

Margit, when was the last time you had a conversation with somebody who didn't agree with you? And how did it go? If you use the microphone. Thank you.

Thank you. I think it is an everyday discussion when people not agree, and the last time probably were the day before we went here, because now I am in echo chambers. And if I, earlier today, i heard I think it was the Canadian ambassador, he talked about there is one argument against women's rights, and the argument is, we have, women have to know their place. And his answer were, yes, we know our place, is here, there, and everywhere.

Magnus, what did you just write down?

Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, you're very good. They said to me, she's very good.

Am I about to learn some curse words in Danish?

No, but I was just reminded when you talked to the Faroe Islands of debate in the Danish parliament and what we are seeing right now, actually, also in the Nordic countries, in the political debate in the Nordic countries, I imagine you see it as well, is that when we have debates right now in the Danish parliament, we are debating about actually strengthening the rights to abortion, a really crucial, important piece of legislation that we are debating right now, and it looks like it's going to be a tremendous big support for that in Parliament, so that's very good to strengthen this and widening these rights. But what we are seeing now is the debate, the argument against, they are almost word to word what are being set in other countries, and that's not what we've actually experienced before. So there is, you could say, the other side of the aisle, those ones who doesn't want to give these rights and wants to increase these rights. Well, they are Maybe they are organizing, I know they are, but also they are actually, it's growing and it's growing with such a pace right now that we really have to keep up and we really have to strengthen our organizations and our collaboration as well.

Paulina, you have a twinkle in your eye. I need you to articulate that twinkle. What is going on?

First of all, I was very pleased with what Magnus just said about the legislation that they're working on in Denmark, because I think that in the context that we're living in right now, we really need to remember that the progress that we have made in the past should, it would be very dangerous to take that for granted. And some of the rights that we You know, they have been in our legislation for a very long time. I do see the risk of us taking it for granted. And therefore, I'm too, I'm very, I'm trying to focus a lot of SRHR rights, including safe and legal abortions, because I think that's such a fundamental right for women in And I think we cannot, in Sweden, we've had a legislation allowing abortion for a very long time, and I'm very happy that we are now working in Sweden to introduce a provision on the right to abortion in our constitution. which I'm very happy that we're doing because we cannot wait until that right faces a real threat. We need to act before that happens. So that was a twinkle in my eye.

Thorbjorg, I know for you from an Icelandic perspective, you want to take us online. You want to take us into the online arena for your biggest concern at the moment for how gender equality is faring.

Maybe first in the beginning, because we're sitting here from the Nordic countries, when you think about the challenges today, it's interesting to think about where we come from. I sit in a government that was formed late December last year. We have 11 ministers, seven of them are women. It's not even newsworthy in Iceland that that's the case. Media focused on that three of the political leaders forming the government, they were also three ladies, and that was significant in Icelandic history. But we reached a point where we take gender equality almost for granted. That is also dangerous, because this is an ongoing battle. I mean, of course, I think all of us coming from the Nordic countries are proud, and we should be proud, and we should be talking about the results we have made. But in terms of online violence and online harassment, I think I would be in line with Magnus when he says what is the world that he can promise his daughters? And I would, of course, top in when I say I have three daughters. When we have all the great results that we do have in the Nordic countries, and we should absolutely not stop talking about, a part of the victory is constantly mentioning it. We are where we are because of progressive politics and decision making. We are still at the point when you look at our daughters and women in our society, as well as particular groups, that safety is the main concern. Safety is the main issue, which shows that our results, they are fragile, and they can easily be changed with attitudes. And as a lawyer, I'm always interested in that, how attitudes impact law and how law impacts attitudes. So, and online, we can see things changing very, very quickly, very, very in a shift way, and dramatically. So, we have in Iceland focused on online violence, and that is our next big battle, I would say.

Yes. If I may continue, actually, the message from our youth delegate, who's probably also sitting here today, her message was that women and girls see online harassment and hate speech as one of the biggest threats to gender equality. So younger generations, for example, when I recruited candidates for the local elections, quite many especially young women, answered that they see politics being too toxic. It's something they don't want to be involved in. They are afraid of the feedback they might get, the hate speech they might get. And this is also a threat against our democracy. So I see that this is something that we really need to work on. We need to do more on stopping the online harassment and making online space also safe, especially for the younger generations, but for everyone, for women, for everyone.

Arland.

Thank you. I'd like to follow up on that one, because for Norway, all the other subjects that have been mentioned is also very relevant for Norway. But I think the new challenges that we face online is also of great importance. We know that the opposition to universal rights and to fundamental rights of women and girls in all diversity is not new, but we witness a resurgence, and it's amplified by the digital world. We see new forms of sexual exploitations, especially affecting girls, and we see harmful stereotypes inciting violence and discrimination. In Norway now, we have three times more girls that report to have been sexually harassed online. We have female gamers who are changing their online names to boys' names just to avoid being harassed. And also, I think the point that the UN General Secretary mentioned earlier today, when you look at the deepfake videos these days, We know that 90% of them are without consent, and we also know that 90% of them are with women. So we have a lot of challenges within this area, which we need to address, and that concerns us. And we have to do it now, because I think if we look ahead 10 years or 20 years down the road, if we don't act on this now, then we will have the structures and the cultures established online, which will be very, very difficult to address. So I think that will be one of our main concerns from the Norwegian side. Thank you.

So, audience here in the ECOSOC chamber, I'm going to ask you to hold your applause until you hear something absolutely extraordinary that would make you want to stand up and applaud.

That was extraordinary, wasn't it?

Ovation extraordinary, because I want you to keep that energy to thank the session at the end of the session. And what happens is that you get tired, and then by the end of it, you're like, "Ugh, they've said so many good things." So I'm not standing on anyone's applause at all. But you really need to mean it. I don't want you to just do it as a punctuation. Does that make sense? Yes. All right, good. So then when the minister say something brilliant and you do spontaneously burst into applause, they know that they're resonating with you.

What happens to the minister that doesn't get an applause then?

They'll get fired. I will let you have the Nordic solution for that. So we promised, when we put this session together to you, that we would bring bold strategies and also highlight, because we really need this, what the achievements have been, even though we feel like, hang on a minute, we've been doing this for decades. Why are we still having these same debates? So bold strategies is where we're going to next. Thorbjørn, how bold are you feeling? Unleash a strategy.

Less bold after your comments about the applause. But I mean, I think in the Icelandic context, when you think about boldness, you think about the women's movement and how the civil society has always helped our governments to focus. That it has been difficult politically not to emphasize gender equality. So the boldness, in my view, is always rooted from the same, the women's movement and the civil society. And I think now when we are all experiencing. I have one fan here.

Are you from Iceland?

No, okay. Absolutely not. Never seen this woman.

Are you Thor Bjork's sister?

But I also think we need, then you see us walk out together. We also need to be bold in the European and Nordic context when it comes to LGBTQ rights. We are seeing, and also because I mentioned online reality, when we're talking about harassment and safety online, this is certainly a group that is experiencing dramatic changes and a shift in attitudes. So my bold answer would be just don't forget the history. Learn from the history. And in terms of the Nordic context, continue with our good history.

So you said why bold strategies are important, where they should be applied, but I didn't hear a strategy. Yeah, or one that you've seen that's worked, that actually makes you feel good, because I'm gonna make sure that everybody leaves this chamber with strategies and reasons to be hopeful. Okay.

I mean, I think, coming from Iceland, we should feel hopeful. There's no reason not to feel hopeful. As a lawyer, I would say the best strategy is to have a progressive government with progressive tools, progressive legislation, and ministers that do feel and implement every day gender politics in their decision making. Maybe sounds dull, but that is the strategy that we are in our every daily decision, we take gender equality into account.

Magnus, I see out of the corner of the eye, your pen is working overtime. What did you write again?

Yeah, well Well, we sit here, we are, as you know, we change the laws. That's our, that's really the most important instrument to change the laws. But I think what I can see very clearly, especially in this time, is that when legislators have the strength and courage to actually change the law and to do so, and to then place yourself in front of, maybe even in front of the majority of the people saying, we have to go in this direction, then what we can see in a matter of a few years time, actually, then we have not only changed the law, we have actually also shaped the culture. So I have one example that is in Denmark, it's just a couple of years ago, we changed the law on rape, actually. So now it is a consent based. You know what I mean when I say that? You have to have consent if you are going into a sexual intercourse. You have to have consent. If you don't have consent, well, then you risk a rape situation. So we did that. People were not behind it, all of them. Big debate, could that actually work? Now we have a couple of years, and it does work. And people are, they're discussing it, but they're working into it, and both young men and young women are really living this right now. something we've discussed in a long time, but then we actually decided to do it, and just the next day, we could see the culture was shifting. So I think that is really positive, and that's the strategy.

I just wanted to add, because I know that both Sweden as well as Iceland have changed their laws in this perspective, putting the focus on consent, and it does exactly, or Finland as well, okay, all of us have. It also, because I used to work as a prosecutor, it changes the focus of the investigation of these cases. That the victim is not explaining why something happened, but the accused has to do so. And this is a major, major shift in investigation.

Margit, what strategy would you like to share with us that would fit in the category of being bold?

Yes, I think maybe some of you know, but a new abortion law was presented to the Faroe Islands Parliament last year. We had expected that the law would go through, that a woman could make the decision herself, but it did not. And with a roughly 50/50 in the parliament, it did not come true, and the public is also divided, also roughly 50/50. And somehow, pushing for progress is just not a slogan, it is an action, and it is also an action we have to do again. We have to present the law again, and again, and again, as many times needed. We have to present the law so we can have legislation of abortion.

And Margit, can I just say, first of all, I know how hard you're working for this. So she really needs those claps because it's not easy. It's not an easy task to change years and years and years on doing that. And also a promise from me. While you're doing that, of course, it'll be like this, that women from the Faroe Islands are, of course, as always, welcome in Denmark to have this abortion made. So that's how it is.

Yes, it is difficult, and it is not as straightforward as some might think. I think it's a combination of cultural, ethical, moral, and religious issues that we have to go to dialogue so we can have the law go through. And thank you, Denmark, for helping so much you can. Yeah, thank you.

So Margit, where does the resilience then come from? It's not going to be done in one go, one campaign. You keep going. What helps you with that? Because that definitely is a takeaway that we can all tap into.

Well, I think it's, we have to talk about why we are not our, have the same opinion. What is it? It's religion, and it is cultural, but we have to talk about and take the discussion. It's very important that we present the law again, maybe every year. We have to do it because we can see, if we look back, we can see that there are more people who actually think it's fine that we can get it through. So we have to try and present the law until we get it through.

Is it demographics? Is it young and then an older age range? Are you talking across demographics? Because I always think when I was a young activist, we just have to wait for the old people to die and then everything will be fine. And now I'm an old activist, and they're still alive. So that wasn't a bold strategy.

Well, I think there is the parliament, they're, sorry to say, old men, and yeah, they are against the law. And we are getting more and more young people in the parliament, and that's a good thing. That's in the parliament, and then we have other issues in the public.

Paulina.

I would like to comment on what Magnus and Thorbjørn said, focus on women's security and also when it comes to sex offenses. I think one of the biggest inequalities between men and women is that women cannot move freely in society because there are. Actually, I want to ask all the women in here, how many of you have avoided, like in the physical world, how many of you have avoided walking home alone at night because you feel insecure? Raise your hands. I think, I mean, this is really, really a big problem. This is, I mean.

Polina, can we ask the same question of the men in the room?

Yes, yes. There are not that many, but yes. The men in the room, how many of you have avoided walking home alone?

It might work better if we get the men in the room to raise their hands, if you don't mind, and then put your hands down if you were scared walking home.

Yes.

Any hands down?

No. Well, a few hands down. A few. I think this is a real problem. This is people having limited freedom because they're afraid. And for women, it's about, you're afraid of being subjected to sexual violence, that's mostly the reason why you limit your freedom. And this is something that we need to, of course, really work with. And as Thorbjørn said, we have also in Sweden the legislation based on consent, which I also, as a former prosecutor, I really see the benefits of the legislation like that. But we also need to work with the digital space, because that is not an area that is not real. In the beginning of the digital era, I felt like there was this notion that it's only online, so it doesn't count. Now in Sweden, we actually have legislation where you can get convicted of rape even online. Like, even if you're not in the same physical room, you can still be convicted for rape. And that's a bold legislation that I'm very proud of.

Alan.

Thank you. I just also want to reflect a bit around the fact that in some parts of this work, we have to be very innovative and look forward. But also, when we look at some of the issues being raised, I can go back to 1994 to the Cairo conference and read the Norwegian prime minister's speaking lines in that conference. And it's just a valid as today. She spoke about abortion, and she spoke about restrictive abortion policies and how that was and would give an impact on the individual decision making, but not on the numbers. And she referred to that the time when Norway legalized abortion, and everybody told us that the abortion numbers would would skyrocket. And history has shown that that didn't happen. The numbers stayed the same, but the number of illegal abortions went to zero. And that is just something we need to raise again. And 30 years. later, we need to dispel the same myths as we did in the 90s. And I think the same has to do with what Polina is speaking about for the SRHR. For sexual education, for our coming generations, we hear about the stories that too much sexual information will give an escalating, how do you say, in sexual activity. But we see the opposite. We see that when our coming generations get knowledge, we see more responsible behavior. And that is what we need. We need more information in this in this field. And also speaking of the online concert or the online world, that is also a huge source for misinformation in this area that we also need to need to address. Thank you.

Sunny. The word bold can mean different things to different people. In the context of the Nordic Council of Ministers, I feel that your bold is up here, and the world's bold is here. So take us to the extremes of being bold in terms of strategy that you can share that will give us something to aim for.

Well, I think it would be useful to look back in the history of Nordic countries. For example, Finland was the first country in the world to give women full political rights, 1906. So right to vote and right to be a candidate in the elections. And during the Second World War, women had to start working because men needed to be at the war. And after, they didn't return back home after the war because we needed women as the workforce. And after that, I think we've progressed, we're taking steps, and it also has a link to the economic success of Nordic countries, that we have used the full potential. We educate women, we educate everyone, we have a very high quality education, and we've invested a lot in our human capital and human, the whole men and women and all everyone. So I think it has some quite short, but still very progressive history of becoming the happiest countries in the world, I would say. What do you think it is?

Because I'm just trying to think, it's like, can we scale up Finland? So what is it that made Finland be so progressive, so early?

It was education, definitely.

Education?

Yes.

Oh, yes. The universal vaccine.

Investing in education is the best gender equality policy.

Oh my goodness. Say that again. Education.

That's how it is. But still, as we've seen, I think many of us thought that Nordic countries would be immune to anti-gender movements, but we are not. And that's why we need to be very careful with the situation now around us, that there are populist movements, there are anti-gender movements also in Nordic countries, and we need to be bold in defending human rights and defending women's rights in our parliaments.

Yeah, I just wanted to add, because I agree with Sanni, it's definitely education, but I think two other major factors are also parental leave and daycare. And I mean, there's always this difference of knowing something and then feeling it. And I studied here in the US, and then I realized, like, Iceland is pretty good. Because then I met all these women, like, "Ah, I used to be a book editor or something, and now I'm not." And from Scandinavia, I'm like, "Why is that?" Because I'm a mother. So parental leave and daycare that you can access for real without becoming bankrupt. I mean, so it's small, daily things that have huge impact on your life.

I love that parental leave and daycare are superpowers. Arland and then Magid, I know you have stuff to say, go ahead.

No, I think I'll just follow up on that one. I think it's a very important argument to raise, and both parental leave and daycare is It's important to give the women the possibility to work. And I've said it before that, that when we look at countries who are not able to bring women into the workforce, we it's it's a really strange, how do you say, with regards to the to the GDP and with regards to bringing human and labor rights into work. Of course, we need the women in the workforce. That is good for every country. And that's just In that picture, the parental leave and daycare is expensive, maybe when you do it the first year, but for sure, there is no doubt about that this is an investment that will bring your society benefits in the years to come.

Yeah, so actually, I think what we are trying to say, all of us, is that You know, the Nordic model, our economic model, the welfare state model that we have, is actually, would be, and some of the richest countries in the world, we know that also, it would be impossible, totally impossible without gender equality, because it is such an important part of not just who we are, but also the companies working in our countries, the public sector, you mentioned education, and it's such an important thing that it would be impossible to say, we want to make this kind of a society if you were not actually ready also to really introduce gender equality. It is two sides of the same thing.

Margie, what did you want to add? Go ahead. And just press the microphone. Thank you.

We talk about education and daycare and parental leave. I think it's important to how do we have the parents leave. How much can the fathers and the mothers have been together with the children at the first time, at the beginning of their lives? I think it's important to give mothers and fathers to share the parents' leave, because Otherwise, the mothers will be home and it's difficult to come to the work. It can be difficult to come to the work. So I think it's important that mothers and fathers share.

I totally agree, and this is maybe one of these points where you forget the specifics of the Nordic context. But in Iceland, when we It was in 2000 when we, for the first time, gave fathers independent rights to paternal leave. And then as we have longed, we have 12 months of parental leave now. We have always had a rule of independent rights for the father, also meaning that if the mother can't use his part of the right, this is controversial. but a fundamental part of why we are where we are in terms of gender equality.

So in 10, sorry, Sani, go ahead.

Can I add? I also see that it's also a children's right, a question of children rights. Children rights to spend time with their fathers as well, and fathers' right to spend time with the kids, isn't it? So it's very important also to see how this affects so positively on the whole family. And it also matters our work in families, and who takes care of the children when they're sick. Is it mother always or fathers also taking the more active role? So this is important. And our family leave system was reformed only a couple of years ago. And according to the latest data, the number of parental leave days taken by fathers has almost doubled. So legislation matters. And we also need role models like fathers to take more active role and stay home with their kids.

So in the next five to 10 minutes, I am going to share the conversation with you here in ECOSOC chamber. You are going to be co-moderating with me. Only brilliant questions, please. Let me introduce you to Nelly Munyasya. She's the executive director of Reproductive Health Network of Kenya. I wanted to make sure that this wasn't a conversation that was all about the global north, as much as we admire our ministers up here. Nelly, pushing for progress from Kenya, what does that mean?

Thank you so much. Yeah, just listening to the Nordic ministers and coming from the Global South, we have a lot of people that wanted to come here, but they were not able to get their visa. The LGBTQI community, a bigger number, were denied visa. Women today, back in the global south, are dying. Seven women in Kenya, for example, died due to unsafe abortion. That's the reality. It is the reality. When you talk about the anti-rights movement, we are seeing them pushing that part of the task force, the technical working groups that develop progressive policies in our country. They have gotten to the decision-making table. What does that mean? The progress that we've made, we had made in terms of access to safe abortion, it's being taken away. Healthcare providers, the network I lead is for healthcare providers in the private sector, that are bold, as we were just talking about being bold. They have dared over the years to be bold enough, but because of the anti-rights movement, we have seen them being arrested every day. We are seeing the women that need access to safe abortion services being arrested. Abortion aside, In Africa, we have two countries that I know of that have already passed the anti-homosexuality bill. That is how bad it is. I mean, think about the funding cuts. It affects the vulnerable. Who are these? They're the women in the diversities. They do not have the power. They are not empowered. They don't have resources. We still have the social norms, and I think you all attributed to that. We have religion that is a big, you know, barrier to accessing even the essential services such as contraceptives. In Africa, at this point in time, men still decide for women the number of children they should have. They decide when they should, you know, stop giving birth at this point in time. So think about the pushback that we have right now and how it is emboldening the communities, how it is emboldening the global South and the leadership. And the reality is our leadership will want to align itself with where supposedly the development fund will be coming from. It doesn't matter whether it takes us back 30 years back. And why? Because of the dependency. As a country, or as countries, we've not prioritized domestic funding. And as such, the lives of the women continue in their diversity, continue to be the one that is compromised. I hear a lot of conversations around development being infrastructure, being roads, but this, the thin line between development and SRHR, a woman has to be empowered. for them to be able to make a decision about when and with whom they want to have sex, when they want to have children. They have to be empowered for them to effectively take care of their families, take their kids to school. And in all this, we still see 30 years later, men are the ones still making decisions even about if a woman should stay at home. I had the conversation about care. In Kenya and in the global South, we still have the whole issue around unpaid labor, where women are not recognized. And when you go to some factories, if a woman does not go to work because she's having painful menses, then she's not paid. If she becomes pregnant, she loses the job. And so all the conversation and all the work that we've done over the years to mainstream gender equity, even in the private sector, it's being washed down by the pushback. And so the reality is, this is a very trying moment back in the global South. I listen to the Nordic ministers, who fortunately also have representation in the countries we come from, and I wonder, How bold are you going to be to ensure that we are not losing on the investments you've done back in the Global South? Because it's just a matter of time and that will be flipped, and we are going to lose on that.

Nelly, always best to end on a huge applause when you ask a question. So I'm going to take that question, but ask you, out of the Nordic countries represented here, who did you want to pose that question to? You get to choose. Not all of them, one.

Denmark has done a fantastic job. From the country I come from, Kenya, and Finland.

No, I said one.

There's no place called Denmark, Finland.

I think for now, Femi, We need collective support.

Do you know, that's a good point?

Yeah.

I'm going to put it to one person. I have to put it to one person because I want our attendees here to also ask questions. One person for a very quick answer is Denmark. She's making me decide. It is my job. It's my responsibility. Magnus.

Well, first of all, thank you for being here. Thank you for raising your voice with such a clear message. And I think what I thought of hearing what you explained, is that this actually, we know that, but it was so clear when you said it. This has never been about men versus women. Never. It's about control, it's about power, it's about not giving away this control and power and money, and that's what it's all about. And so those forces that are washing those things down and pushing back, that's not about men versus women, it's about them wanting to control the power and to exercise those ancient powers and to get control back. So what you're asking is, are we going to focus more on gender equality and abortion rights and helping? Yes, and I can say, yeah, we are. We are, I was in Kenya just last year, and I've made some great friends there, and tremendous work being done there. A lot of jobs also to do, but we are, and we are together, quite a lot of countries from the north actually are investing, and that is one of our, this and also the green transition, those two issues, and I think they actually combined, those two issues. So that is our primary focus in regards to our our investments and what we're doing in Kenya and the countries around.

All right, I'm going to take four questions and see if I can put four questions into 15 minutes. I want one from here, one from here, one from this side, and one from this side. Yes. Do you have a microphone? Yes. All right, just tell me the question. I will make a list. Go ahead. A simple question. Go ahead.

Okay, so my name is Grace, and I'm representing from Iceland, and I want to ask a question to the panelist Nordic ministers. What initiatives, policies, strategies, and data around immigrant and refugee women in the Nordic countries have you employed to empower them and allow them to enjoy gender equality and thrive in society? And have you taken them to consideration when considering when talking about gender equality? And I just want to add, last year, there was in the panel of Nordic ministers, Finland was the only country actually that presented data around the progress of women of foreign origin or immigrant women against violence, financial violence, and their progressive and their inclusion in the labor market. And so I want to commend Finland for that, but I really want to hear about the other, the panel at least, what initiatives they're employing to ensure that women of immigrants and refugee women in the Nordic countries are also included when we talk about gender equality. Thank you.

Thanks, Grace. Thank you. Hello, yes. Yes.

Dutch civil society, I'm president of the Dutch Women's Council and the Women's Rights Organization, and I have a question because I am beyond childbearing age, and so I need menopause care. And in the Netherlands, i don't get it because, you know, it's dangerous, they think. Latest research shows that it's actually saving money. I want to know the Nordic Council. all these countries, can I get your take on it? Will you help me in the Netherlands and Belgium to get this to us too, if you already have it?

I will be taking notes, I won't tell you why. All right, one question over here on this side of the room. Let's go towards the back. Hand up. Yes. No, you have to be on a microphone because the online audience will not be happy with me. Come down to a microphone. Thank you. One question on this side of the room that's in front of a microphone. Okay, yes, right over here. Yes, yes. What's your question?

I am from Mexico. I would like to know if the Denmark have any kind of psychological therapy to help women process post-abortion trauma.

Okay, and did you find a microphone? Yes, you did. Is it on?

Well, thank you. There you go. You can hear me now.

Yes, go ahead.

My name's Trinity Ford. I am a disabled transgender woman here representing People with Disability Australia. My question is about how states like yours can better protect transgender people, because we are currently subject to a widespread and systemic attack, severely depriving us of our fundamental rights on the basis of refusing to perform the binary gender roles wrongly assigned to us. In certain contexts, this persecution rises to the level of a crime against humanity. under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, namely prison rape and detransition torture, enforced sterilization, and child removals. Given that this is now more than just a human rights issue, it's an international crime, arguably.

All right, Trinity, I'm going to go straight to that question so that I actually get some answers for you. Thank you. So we don't run out. I appreciate that. Excuse me for interrupting you. Who wants to tackle Trinity's question first? Yes, Paulina.

First of all, I really admire your courage for just being here in this space and just sharing your situation. And I understand your concerns. In Sweden, we actually voted last year for a new trans law that will make it easier for people to change their legal gender, which I think is a very important thing. I was, however, concerned when I saw the discussions that preceded the voting in the Swedish parliament. It was obvious that we still have a lot of work to do when it comes to seeing the situation of transgender people and also work very hard against discrimination. We have also taken initiative in Sweden just recently where we look at LBTIQI rights in general, and we have now directed our actions towards the workplaces because we see that there is a lot of discrimination especially when it comes to transgender people in our workplaces, that we really need to handle so that, of course, transgender people should be as accepted as anyone else in our workplaces, because if you're not part of the working life, you suffer economically and, of course, even socially. So we have several actions in place in Sweden. But I am still concerned because I see the discussions and I see that in Sweden we are not immune when it comes to real hatred and discrimination against transgender people. But thank you for your question here today.

All of the questions were really, really great, and I think all of us will try to answer all of them. But there was a question here about the labor market and what our governments are doing. I wanted to mention that in Iceland, it was in 2016, i think, that we implemented laws on equal pay certification. The main theme of the legislation was the gender pay gap, but a side effect, and an important side effect of that legislation was, of course, that we saw that People from Iceland and people entering the labor market from abroad were not paid always equally. So that has to do with a law that is in some term neutral can have a positive effect. And I think in Iceland now, I think 20% or 18% of the population does not come from Iceland. The labor market is, of course, a key question in order to ensure equality in a broad sense, and fair pay and economic independence is, of course, an issue that is important for all women.

Elin, which of the questions do you feel most able to respond to in a brief way?

I think from the Norwegian side, we have done two major works the last six months. One is a white paper on sexual harassment, and the issues that you're raising from a transgender perspective here is highly relevant for what we are trying to achieve. We have a really How is it terrible months behind us with regards to the issue that you're raising, and we need to address this, and we need to stand up for our societies being inclusive for every inhabitant in Norway, or in the Nordics, or in every country. Also, I would just briefly, I think there was a around the immigrant women, and that goes into the same, how do you say? Not the same work, but we put forward a strategy for equality between men and women just before Christmas. And obviously, this is a central part also. How can we make sure? And again, it's all about making sure that every group of our society will be treated as equal as possible. That is the guiding principle for all our political work. We are not. perfect at it, but we need to establish that goal every time we're doing political work to make sure that we try to achieve that goal. Thank you.

Magít, which of the questions would you feel comfortable responding to or most able to respond to?

Thank you. I think there was a question about psychological health, and we have in the Faroe Islands psychological help for young people between 15 and 25 years, they can have psychological help if they need it. And we also have psychological help for women who get raped. There we also have psychological help. And for the paternity, we have proposed for a law for several more weeks for mothers and fathers also. Yeah, I think that's... Thank you.

Sunny.

Thank you for the very important questions, and I agree that we need to defend the rights of the LGBTIQ people as well. We've been talking a lot about women's rights, and this is important, but we need to keep the LGBTIQ people's rights in the center of this discussion as well, and we need to be aware of the safety getting worse for the trans people. And Finland actually recently reformed our trans law, like Sweden. And this new legislation improves the realization of the right to self-determination and separates the legal recognition of gender from medical examination and treatment. So, this progressive trans law was a big debate before, but after, I feel that everyone's quite It took many steps forward in understanding the people coming from trans, the transgender people. And one thing I want to also say is that, I believe for the first time, we have menopause mentioned in our government program. And I think it's now time for women's health to be also in agenda, and menopause is something that we need to have the courage to speak about. It's normal and it happens to half of the population.

See, Dutch civil service. Dutch civil society, I thought none of the ministers were going to mention it. I was like, how do they have opinions on some of these other trickier questions? But every woman, mostly, and every goes through this. So I'm not going to let them get away with not answering. We have five other answers still to come. I'm gonna ask you to do it very briefly, Magnus.

Yeah, I got a question from Mexico over there, and you asked about abortion trauma and was that an issue and how we dealt with it. Well, I used to be a minister for health, so I've been really working hard on the mental health issues and how to both prevent but also help people with mental health. As you might know, it is free to get this help from society, so yes, the short question is yes, we have these. If you have trauma, regardless of from where, then you can get help from society. But I will also add, hearing your question, that I am, without a doubt, I'm really sure that Both the physical and the mental health issues are much more, much bigger if you were to have illegal abortions. So legal abortions is both better for your mental health and for the physical health. I think that's also important.

Ministers, we didn't prepare this, but I know you will be fine. Paulina, yes, you have something else to say before I go to the unprepared section.

I wanted to say something about the menopause.

Please. Yes, I will give you an extra 20 minutes for that.

I think it's too important to let go. In Sweden, we actually, when this government took office, we made an agreement that we would put a lot of focus on women's health, because that is an area, it's crazy 'cause we're half the population and still we have so much medical care that's made for men and men's anatomy. So we have like a chunk of actions that we take and we try to develop our research. and also medical care when it comes to women's health, including menopause, including birth, including also women's health problems like endometriosis, like these health problems that, of course, they should be, we need to have healthcare that are that can deal with these issues, because it's such an important health, gender equality issue. So thank you for addressing that issue, and I really think that's something that we all should bring with us from here today.

I'm gonna wrap it up because I feel like we have to have a session on menopause, right? BSW 70, have I got that right? Menopause, and I know who will be there. And I feel I'd be an appropriate person to moderate that because I'm feeling quite hot right now. All right, we have three minutes, six ministers. You have 30 seconds for one sentence that will take our CSW attendees, whether online or in this room, help them push for progress when they leave this session? Margit, I feel like I know what yours should be. Can I tell you what it is?

Please tell me.

It's not a slogan. I wrote that down when you said it. Can you say it again? Would you mind?

Yes. Pushing for progress initiative is not a slogan. We have to act, we have to do it every day.

You were brilliant, it was brilliant the second time around as well. Arndt.

Thank you. I would just like to say that in these times also, we have to build on the good lessons. And we have to show the world that investing in these things that we have been talking about today, that pays off in every respect for every country.

First of all, never take previous progress for granted. And then you need to find partners and coalitions to push forward, because going back first is not an option.

I feel like we're in a rally now. Thorbjørn.

I mean, today, i think it's really, really important to remember what we have been able to do. There is a backlash, we can all feel it, but we have to remember what we were able to do if we want to continue. I would like to mention in that regard that in 2019, we changed legislation in Iceland in regards of your right for your own freedom to identify. That has led us in second position on the European Rainbow Map. We are highly ranked with the Trans Right Map as well, first place, as a matter of fact. So remember what we were able to do when things are a bit harder now. in order to continue.

Magnus, the extraordinary sentence you're going to leave us with is.

Okay, well, yeah. So, yeah, the climate is hostile out there. We know that. We know that the fights, they are really getting tough right now, but I think we will What we have to do today is to promise each other that just because the climate is hostile, the fights are tough, the debates are horrible, if they thought that that would mean that we will back down, then they don't know anything about who we really are. Let's do that.

I like the quote that General Secretary Guterres said, that antidote is action. And I know it's a cliche, but so true that together we are stronger. Thank you.

Pushing for progress was brought to you by the Nordic Council of Ministers. who care about gender equality and LGBTI. Ministers, we thank you. Attendees, you could be anywhere at CSW69. We are so happy that you were here in this room at this time and online. Thank you. The session is now closed. Just the phone? Yes, yes. Okay, let's do it now. You can see why I didn't do it then. I was like, not so much stuff to do.