Public interactive event with Javier González-Olaechea Franco

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now welcome our third and final candidate for the post of Director-General of the ILO, Mr. Javier Gonzalez Olachia Franco of Peru. Welcome. Before we turn to our final candidate, just a brief reminder again to everyone here in the room to remain seated and silent during the interview. And those following online, please keep your microphone switched off until and unless you are called upon to speak. So, good afternoon to you, Mister Gonzalez, Oleshia Franco, as with the previous candidates. I'd like to invite you to begin the interview with a brief presentation of your candidature. And your vision for the ILO, you will have five minutes to do so. After which, we will move to the question and answer part of the public interactive event. with representatives of the three ILO constituent groups. The floor is yours, sir. And we have a PowerPoint.

Thank you, Chair, distinguished delegates. I would like to warmly greet my colleagues from the SNOWBL institution. We are witnessing a transition and a time of change. This is an era of change, and this is the result of convergences and new types of communication, AI, and bioengineering. Since COVID-19 until today, it's been five years. This is equivalent to a five-year term for an ILO DG. And we've seen exponential changes during that time. And our lives are never going to be the same again. Despite all of this, the mandate of this tripartite organization is unquestionable. Universal, sustainable peace can only be built on justice and social inclusion. In the ILO, there are changes. There are significant changes and needs which mean that we need to strive for a decent life despite the disruptions. This new era offers us massive opportunities while at the same time presenting us with significant challenges. How do we achieve dignity, rights and inclusion? Now, my training means that I look at things in a holistic way. The Ministry of Labour and Employment and other ministries working together with the business world and working for 20 years in the ILO and as the foreign minister in Peru, I have vast experience. And I'd like to focus mainly on four pillars, standards and rights, employment, social protection, and social dialogue. And the main objective will be to guarantee that the disruption is not going to prevent us from preserving fundamental rights and human dignity. When we see a particular job type disappearing, the path should not lead to unemployment and precarity and exclusion. No, quite to the contrary, what should happen should be that there's a transition, training, retraining, and formalization. And we need to draw on the tools that we have and use public policy in order to ensure that there are guarantees for social protection, as well as drawing on job creation and innovation as tools. Therefore, we have an obligation to empower people to make them more employable. because this is something that is clearly lacking at the moment. We need tripartite governance in order to address these needs of the future, given the emerging challenges. I hope that social dialogue promoted by the ILO will make it possible to have permanent, efficient mechanisms that will anticipate change and provide effective responses. We want to have consultations and negotiations and reach sustainable agreements, which will facilitate retraining in the workforce. In this way, we can avoid conflicts. It's in this way that we can dovetail technological developments with social justice. And in this way, we will move towards making our shared vision a reality. And that is this disruption, but at the same time, a decent life. We don't want to hear, I'm looking for a job. My intention is to take on a huge responsibility in the ILO. We are looking at what opportunities are available to our families, what opportunities they will have tomorrow and what kind of decent life will be available to them, because we know that we can get the best results and we know how to go about that. It is for this reason that I suggest that we need a financially sustainable ILO that will offer us tangible, measurable results. And I am doing this because I think it's feasible. And I will spare no effort to make sure that this is a reality. We need this tripartite model. And we need to draw on that. And I want to point out that I have the employers and workers and my government who support my candidacy. and what we need to do is to be ahead of changes. As a candidate, I recognize that we need to meet and face these challenges together.

Thank you very much. Now we're going to go to the question and answer part of the dialogue, and the first question is coming from the government, and The governing body chair has many skills. So, colleagues, now we're going to go to the question and answer part, and we're going to go to the governments first, and I'm very happy to give the floor to His Excellency, Mr. Christophe Paille from Belgium, on behalf of Europe and Central Asia, who will ask two questions. So, we'll hear your first question now. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Mr. Gonzalez, hola, echa, welcome and good afternoon. Our first question is related to UN reform and ILO's comparative advantage and leadership within the multilateral system. At a time of significant financial pressure across the UN system and of growing concern among member states about duplication and overlap between international organizations, and noting the existing opportunities in terms of synergies between UN agencies, how would you define the ILO's unique comparative advantage within the UN system? If elected, what measures would you take to maintain the ILO's leadership within the multilateral system and create more synergies with other relevant UN agencies? What concrete indicators would you use to measure whether your leadership has successfully strengthened the organization's relevance and influence? I thank you.

Thank you, Ambassador. Over to you, please, sir.

Thank you. The advantage we have is that our mandate benefits from legitimacy.

Aucune autre.

No other organization in the UN system is tripartite. This is unique. In other words, we are the house of dialogue and it is my firm belief. that we need to preserve tripartism. I worked for 20 years in this House, and as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I always defended positions in the context of multilateralism. So let's have a look at what the measures are that we can rely on to improve the financial situation. Now, I admit to you that I am very concerned about getting specific results because we are going to need to have prior dialogue with constituents. We need all three social partners involved. So not just the DG, but the DG needs to work together with the constituents and there needs to be one voice speaking from the ILO, all of the social partners together. In other words, we need to work together to find a solution.

Thank you very much. I give the floor again to the Ambassador for the second question, please.

Thank you, Chair. Our second question is related to gender. The 2026 International Labour Conference adopted an ambitious, transformative agenda for gender equality in the world of work. As Director General, how would you ensure that gender equality remains a protected and clear institutional priority and that the commitments made by the conference translate into concrete and measurable results? I thank you.

Thank you, Ambassador. Over to you, sir.

Thank you. As I mentioned, I worked for 20 years in the ILO. So there is no doubt that I am completely and fully my commitment with the agenda of the ILO. I know that many, many questions are around the ILO of this agenda. But I still, I want to underline once again, I worked 20 years defending and also in the norms, international standard labels, defending what we have achieved until now. Yeah, yeah.

Thank you very much. So now we're going to go from the Americas to Africa, and I'm going to ask Mr. Yacouba Aboubakar to ask two questions on behalf of Africa. The floor is yours for your first question, sir.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you also. Mr. Gonzales Olechey, thank you for participating today. My first question is as follows: If you were elected as DG, what would be your strategic vision and what would be your specific priorities in order to implement the Decent Work Agenda in Africa? And how would you make this vision translate into tangible results, given the current financial constraints in the organization and decisions already taken regarding staff? Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your question. I'm sorry, I've just lost my train of thought here. Could you just put the question again, please?

Please, please, Niger, the question again, please. Volontier.

With pleasure. If you were to be elected DG, what would be your strategic vision? And what would be your specific priorities and strategy to implement the decent work agenda in Africa? Also, how would you make this reality translate into tangible results, bearing in mind the financial constraints in the organization at the moment and decisions that have already been taken regarding staff? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Ms. Chair. Over to you, sir.

To the Decent Work Programme. Well, I would like to refer back to my experience in the ILO when I was director in Argentina. After eight months, I achieved through dialogue and hard work that we had the three social partners working together. This was in a difficult time, 2003 to 2010. And with my guidance, they signed up the first Decent Work Country Programme. Now, as I recall, no other regional office achieved this to the point where here at the head office in this house, I received the request to establish a kind of guidelines for how we achieve this, and then the procedure was reproduced in other regions as well. Now, with regard to what has been said about the current financial crisis, I've heard your question and your concerns. And indeed, we need to tackle the crisis head on. Throughout my entire career, I have operated in times of crisis in my country as well. We've gone through many crises and other countries as well where I have experienced. We have gone through many crises. Now, limits are real and we have massive debts to deal with. And I will spare no efforts in, first of all, listening to those who are in arrears in order to understand what their reasons are, and then I will seek to convince them and get agreements from them. Now, I can't give you a specific timeline, but there's one thing that I will tell you now, and that's as follows. The mandate begins on October 1st, but if I'm elected on November 16th, I'm going to put myself to work on November 17th without asking for any expenses to be paid, but I'll start working straight away the next day in order to get results 10 months down the road. Because basically what I want to do is to take on a responsibility. And as I say, if I am elected on November 16th, I will start work on November 17th, the very next day after the election.

Thank you very much. So I go back to Niger for the second question, please. Barker, please.

Merci, merci Thank you, Chair. My second question is as follows. Democratization is a very important subject for the African group. Africa has also launched the review process of the list of countries of chief industrial importance. And a committee of experts will soon be making their report available on this subject. I would like to ask you how you intend to promote this process of democratization in this organization, given the work underway already. In other words, how do you intend to facilitate the ratification of the 1986 amendment instrument and get it ratified by all members of the ILO, including countries of chief industrial importance? How do you think that the report from the Committee of Experts with regard to the review of the list of countries of chief industrial importance, how should it be handled? That's my question. Thank you.

Given the complexity of the situation and the difficulty that all organizations have in not having instruments in order to oblige a member state to do something they don't want to do. Well, bearing that in mind, I am aware of the 100 and something ratifications, which include my country, and there are two countries of chief industrial importance who have ratified. and for the amendment to enter into force, we need five out of ten of these countries of chief industrial importance. I will try to convince them. I will attempt to provide them with arguments about achieving greater democratisation in order to get a majority of members on board, including members of chief industrial importance. What I can't do is guarantee specific results because the organization cannot force member states. We are not a court saying that if you don't do something that there is judgments handed down or that the culprit goes to jail. And of course, this is not relevant. It's not comparable to the situation that we're in now to talk about that. But my point is that we must work within certain limitations. The same applies to the permanent members of the Security Council. And what you need to do is to think outside the box in order to come up with the solutions that everybody wants. Thank you very much for your question.

Thank you very much. Now we're going to go to the Asia Pacific region and I'll give the floor to Ms. Bakar from Brunei Darussalam, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. Mr. Javier, your vision focuses on getting positive results and adapting workers to new technologies, bearing in mind financial crisis and constraints. How will you ensure that countries still facing structural labor challenges receive tailored support instead of a one-size-fits-all approach that focus solely on technology-driven change? I thank you.

Thank you very much. The floor is yours, sir.

I would like to expand a little bit on what I said a moment ago. It's clear that many, if not the majority, of countries need to ensure that the adverse consequences, the newly excluded, the newly illiterate, those who have been dismissed from their posts and do not have new skills and end up in the streets, making sure that those skills, those future skills could make people ready for the future, which have already been very well identified and which are in line with present and future market needs can be harnessed. So what I want to do is offer a holistic view of the now and the future, moving from an era of change to an era of disruption, Google it, I think you'll see what I'm trying to come up with in my view of a candidate. In my presentation, I talked about employment, precarity, you get fired, off you go on the streets. That's not something I can accept. I want it to be possible to resume a new upward trajectory. in order to achieve more and better opportunities with the conditions for a dignified life. Dignified life in a disruptive era for those who lack opportunities. Let us think of the younger generations, those who grew up during the pandemic, the coronials as I call them. people who, when they will have grown up, will be moving into job profiles which no longer don't even exist at the current time. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Let me go to Mr. Hossein Nienia from Iran to ask the second question on behalf of Asia and the Pacific. Sir, the floor.

Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon, all. On behalf of ASPEC, I would like to thank the ILO office for organizing this important Q&A session. and to thank the candidates for making themselves available to share their views and clarify their positions. Mr. Franco, according to the Asia-Pacific outlook, the top three major challenges facing the Asia-Pacific region are persistent employment issues, rapid population aging, and structural barriers to efficiency. How and what are your action plans to address them? I thank you.

Thank you very much.

Over to you, sir.

The Asia-Pacific region is the fastest growing region of the world and concentrates 65% of global commerce, as well as the new Silk Route. You're asking what we can offer in general terms to bring about improved living conditions for people in that region? Well, I can say, first of all, that the ILO is the house of hope, the hope of dialogue, a house which will endeavour to find all possible mechanisms in line with the region's reality. It's not just a matter of copy-paste. in order to find the best possible balance, or at least avoid undue imbalance, while seeking to bridge gaps, the technical gap, for example, so that more and better opportunities are available. This can be done through some very concrete proposals which are to be found in the action plan and which we will develop on a pilot basis first. working out the benefits, the costs and the tangible outcomes. We need to be efficient and the results need to be effective. If I have the honour to be elected, I will use the 10 months running up to taking the helm to work on these issues.

Thank you very much. We're now going to turn to the Americas region, and I give the floor to Ambassador Ricciardi of Paraguay. Ambassador, over to you, please.

Gracias, Presidente.

Thank you, Chairman. My thanks also to the distinguished candidate, Javier Gonzalez Olaechea Franco, for his presentation. I have a specific question with regard to the Committee on the Application of Standards. in the list of cases of the CAS, it can frequently be seen a significant presence of Latin American and Caribbean countries amongst the cases selected for consideration. What would be your assessment of this situation? What measures would you, as DG of the ILO, be fostering to ensure balanced, transparent treatment on a consistent basis covering cases across regions, whilst at the same time preserving the independent and technical character of the ILO supervisory mechanisms. Thank you.

There is an old Sufi proverb that says, "Find the answer.

The Sufi proverb goes that you will find the answer in the question. You made reference to transparency in the cases, which are 10 in number. Let us recall that it is the constituents, the constituents who negotiate what the 10 cases will be. It's not the Director General. This is not among the DG's powers. They are not responsible for deciding which cases from the Committee of Experts enters the list. The Committee is entirely autonomous. The same goes for the Committee on Freedom of Association. I worked in the regions addressing on average thousand cases a year for six or seven years, with only 10 requests for additional information. But I must reiterate that it is only the constituents, the governments engaged in negotiations, who have the power to do this. And when you talk about transparency, I would recall that Sufi proverb again, you will find the answer to your question in the question itself.

Thank you, and thank you very much, Ambassador. We now turn to Ms. Blackman from Barbados to ask the second question from the Americas.

Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Dr. Franco. As you're aware, the ILO has maintained a dedicated Caribbean presence in Port of Spain for more than five decades. Given the particular circumstances of Caribbean SIDS, the widening responsibilities of the Caribbean office, including its recently expanded role for Haiti, and the increasing demands being placed on the region. Our question is, what specific commitment would you make to maintain and strengthen an adequately resourced ILO presence in the Caribbean to support a longer, term national and regional programs developed with tripartite constituents.

Dear Ambassador Delegate, according with my experience working in the ILO office for Andean countries, I know very well there are big difference between the countries of the Caribbean and the rest of the Latin American. And the office placed, as you mentioned, it covers at least, if I well remember, 10 countries.

That's a difficult issue to deal with. And when I was working at ILO HQ, an equal treatment was accorded to all from budget standpoint. So from Lima, my capital city, the regional office there, the same allocation went to all, even though the realities were different on the ground. If I am honoured with being elected Director General, I will take specific and effective steps without increasing costs to ensure that a differentiated approach is taken on the basis of the actual realities that exist to ensure that the regional office in Lima properly deals with those realities on the ground.

Thank you very much and thank you to the government. Now we're going to go to the employers and I give the floor to Mr. Matias Thorns. Matias, the floor is yours, please.

Thank you, Chair, and welcome, Mr. Gonzalez, to the hours. It's my honor to present to you the first question of the employers group, and the other three questions will be posed by IAE vice presidents from the different regions who join us online today. Mr. Gonzalez, you already outlined your priorities for the House, but you also said that there are only limited financial resources. So what would you deprioritize under your mandate in order to go ahead with your priorities? your priorities. So what would you deprioritize in order to implement your priorities? And on a more general level, how would the ILO be different under your leadership than the current ILO? Thank you.

Thank you, Mathias.

I am absolutely certain And this God is my witness. One of the differences between the candidates who knows the house inside out. Another candidate and the current DJ. is that, if you have the 10 months between election and assumption of office, an incoming outside candidate will have the opportunity to come up with a financial proposal to stabilise the accounts. I feel some ownership of this, as I have sat here enough times in the past. We don't want to find ourselves suffocating under the weight of arrears. Bearing in mind the irregular, if you will, nature of payments. But from the very beginning, I will also start to knock on doors. Look at people face to face. As I have tried to make clear already, trying to really get a feel for why we're in this situation. I know what's on people's minds. They've told me. But since I'm somebody who has scruples, I cannot reveal those conversations. But because I'm a man of my word, I can certainly say clearly that this is something that I will address. But this is not something which is insoluble. We can get through it. And I think that that 10 month period between election and assumption of office is something that would enable me to come up with a proposal for the GB and the organisation. I take this opportunity also to say that I deeply regret the difficult period that the organisation is going through the and the fact that those who lose their posts cannot be brought back, cannot be recovered. I'm very saddened at the fact that many of my former colleagues are having to go through this challenging process, which leaves a very difficult feeling behind. But those colleagues with the without limit of time contracts will have the opportunity to go to the administrative tribunal and will sooner or later be offered a new post. And this will lead to further situations involving compensation for those staff members. Bearing in mind the necessary measures that may be taken by the DG according to the relevant texts, But I am not expecting the Administrative Tribunal to accept that point of view. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We're going to go to Mr. Alexander Ferland from the employers, who's online.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Taking in account that I represent Latin America in the Governing Body, I will ask my question in Spanish.

Distinguido. Mr. Gonzalez, hola, Chair. Your vision makes reference to permanent dialogue and negotiation with regard to changes within the organization. My question is simple. What would set apart your proposal for dialogue mechanisms from those that already exist in the organization? What's the difference between what you're proposing and what exists already? Thank you.

By way of an answer, could I just check that we're talking about within the office, within the organisation?

Yes, because your vision proposes a permanent structure for negotiation on changes within the organisation. And I'm asking what would set apart your proposal for social dialogue mechanisms from those that already exist in the organisation.

the existing mechanisms that have hitherto been applied have been limited in a very significant way. I'm not referring just to what is being done under my friend, Mister Hombo's administration. But I'm thinking more broadly about a system which tends to be rather focused on the present without looking at the future, without a holistic approach to what may come 10 or 15 years down the line. How can we talk about the future of work if the present is happening, if we're just focused on the present? Bearing in mind that everything is joined up. We are going through an epochal change, as I said, everything is changing, everything is up for change. And to date, we have seen management focusing on the present with certain little forays into the immediate future. But what I'm offering is a holistic vision of the future and the challenges which are going to arise in the world of work in 15 or 20 years. These have been described. Look at what I've written on this, on the disruptive era. You can find it online. Publications coming out of Oxford University, institutions in Massachusetts and elsewhere. It has been found that within the next decade, up to 900 different job types will have disappeared. Any number disappeared during the pandemic. In Japan, for example, there are hotels which are completely robot-run without a single person, banks also. There will be huge numbers of workers who may well find their jobs simply becoming irrelevant and disappearing. I pose the question about a dignified life, and it's essential, therefore, that when we talk about what we can offer to the future generations, we can look to the future. And portability of rights, something which does need to be dealt with from a future based point of view, 15 years down the line. Changes are there. They're not going to be reversed. We're not going to go back to the old normal. There's a new normal on the way.

Thank you very much.

So we're going to go to Mr. Blaise Matte from the employers who is online.

Thank you very much, Chair. You just mentioned the budget and the priorities, but you're also proposing new initiatives on artificial intelligence and labor transitions. What difficult choices are you prepared to make to fund these commitments? And specifically, what would you stop doing? What?

Would I stop doing? Nothing. I will not spare any effort. And if that leads me to the conclusion that in addition to traditional methods and the quest for partnerships, financing, work with multilateral and regional banks, etc., which I'm well familiar with, bearing in mind my work within Peru trying to strike up agreements, including with some of the powers who are here today. a large number of agreements. Well, in view of all that backdrop, I will not stop doing anything. What I want to do is to be able to come up with solutions to present to the GB. The final decision is in the GB's hands. I will serve as the bridge. This is something I've stressed often, the bridge between antagonistic positions with a view to coming up with tangible, visible results. There may well be some questions about specifics, which I hope to be able to answer on the 9th of November. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We go to the final question from the workers, sorry, from the employers. We have Ms. Jacqueline Mugo online.

Thank you very much, Chair. Mr. Gonzalez. Your vision calls for stronger ILO regulatory and monitoring functions, alongside greater predictability and legal certainty for enterprises. What concrete reforms would you propose to ensure that the standards and supervisory system delivers clear, consistent and practical guidance for businesses? And how would you address interpretations that lack tripartite agreement and create uncertainty about employers obligations?

What?

Has been agreed on in general terms, in terms of the application standards? serves to guide and assist governments and the social partners, enabling them to ensure that local legislation is in line, enabling them also to take political decisions to ensure that conventions can, on a progressive basis, become a reality. As to specific measures, I would say, first of all, we need to let them work autonomously. I understand the concerns of the employers. Of course I do. I've been an employer myself. I've had to report on cases involving employers. For example, the persecution suffered by employers in Venezuela. As an office, We need to re assess. The value of those who are investing. That's how you can keep the wheels turning. That is how it's been since time immemorial. You need investment. In order to generate new jobs and new jobs. lead to greater consumption and the wheels keep on turning. With some imperfections, but they turn on the less. Let me be clear about this. President Mojica of Mexico. A few years before passing away, a wise man said, I need the business world. I need their taxes. Because the more taxes they pay, the more money I will have at my disposal as president to help the people who most need it. It was a socialist politician who said this, somebody I admire profoundly. And when we had a socialist president of Chile, similar points were made. Capital is necessary. We need to ensure that there is a financial backstop for guaranteeing workers' rights. Has anybody heard of an enterprise lacking capital? Maybe an intellectual enterprise? Maybe some kind of divine intervention, but back in the real world, we all need capital. When I was an official in this organisation, we needed capital. Those paying were governments. And where did that money come from? That came from workers who are paying their taxes and fundamentally from the major corporations who were generating profits. So let us ensure that we understand how things are. We need those enterprises and that is why the original long-standing mandate of the ILO is so important.

Thank you very much and thank you to the employers. We now turn to the workers online for their four questions and I'll give the floor to Ms. Katalin Pacsiep, please.

Good afternoon all. It has been a long afternoon and many questions have been asked. Mr. Gonzalez, I want to start with the following: in your introductory words, You have already mentioned the importance of the ILO's normative mandate, and you have also worked in the ILO in the Standards Department. When it comes to standard setting, ratification, implementation and supervision of standards, which one of these is, in your view, most relevant to address the world of work challenges of the 21st century? And how would you guarantee the independence of the ILO's supervisory system? In which areas, in your view, do we need further standard setting? And how would you address, if elected, the continued reluctance of some groups in the ILO to agree on the need for any new standards? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Katalin.

Sir, over to you.

Distinguished delegate. Imagine somebody who speaks four languages wants to learn two extra languages without having fine-tuned their knowledge of the three that aren't their mother tongue, that they already had some mastery of. First and foremost, I would like to hope or think that those countries that have already ratified conventions, the 194 of them, and the 209 recommendations, non-binding recommendations as we all know, I would hope that those countries would begin by fulfilling their responsibility. In other words, through national legislation and public policy making, give reality to those instruments they have ratified. Why would we want to go further if we're not up to date with what we have already?

Thank you very much. Katalin, for your second question, please.

Well, the candidate finished with a question, but I will not answer that question currently. Mr. Gonzalez, in your vision statement, you refer to the importance for the ILO to work on artificial intelligence, among others, and to put people before algorithms. How do you see in this regard the outcomes of the standard-setting exercise on platform workers? If elected, what would you do to promote its ratification? And can you specify the need for further work for the ILO in the digital era?

The adoption of this very important convention 193 is a point of departure. It's not the end of the road. Because if we are in the midst of a transition, as I've described, moving from an era of change to an era of disruption, this transition is very much reflected in the adoption of this new convention. So life needs to be breathed into it. There is a need for it to have content in terms of each country. And the ILO, the office needs to work in some very specific ways. For example, in terms of algorithm governance, this is something which has been on everybody's lips. But we don't, even though I think I have a fairly good grasp of the subject, really understand at present exactly how the algorithm comes up with its decisions sometimes on hiring or indeed firing. So Algorithm transparency is something which I'm most concerned with. And. Where, if relevant to the DG's post. Would be something that I would want to examine in detail. In order to ensure that this transparency could be conveyed to the constituents and taken on as a recommendation. For example, recommendation 210 or 211, if you like. Between now and the 1st of October 2027, any number of things could happen. But there is a need to start taking practical steps in addition to this first step. A new recommendation is not necessarily needed. Do bear in mind that I was already talking about the disruptive era back in 2012. Some colleagues may remember this. And that's why I'm really trying to drive home this holistic, comprehensive vision covering the whole gamut of issues in a definition. from a Nobel Physics Laureate who was awarded the prize 90 or so years ago, Rosenberger, for quantum physics. Everything is interrelated, each and every point. Everything exists in relation to something else. Just to paraphrase very simply what Rosenberger said. But I feel that on this topic, this is something I have a good grasp of. Sorry to blow my own trumpet, but I think it's true in this case.

Thank you very much. Katalin, third question from the workers, please.

Thank you, Matthew. Mr. Gonzalez, freedom of association and collective bargaining are considered essential enabling rights within the ILO, including the right to strike, which has in the meantime been confirmed by the International Court of Justice. Without respect for these rights, it is not possible to achieve other rights and decent work. Yet, millions of workers around the world suffer from trade union rights violations, including in your region, and Convention 87 and 98 on freedom of association and collective bargaining are the most violated and least ratified of all the core conventions. What would your agenda be to address this very serious matter?

Allow me to begin with your last statement about the conventions, the least ratified and the most violated. But in Latin America, we are the region that has ratified the most these conventions. Yes, there have been violations. That's a fact. Many countries are guilty of that. Now, I know this because I have worked in the standards department and also because I'm a keen observer of what's going on in our region and all around the world, particularly with regard to conventions 87 and 98 and also 102 and child labor, their conventions on child labor. Basically, regarding all conventions, I am very alert to what's going on. And I can guarantee to you the following. If you want people to actually sign on the dotted line and you want more compliance, you can find all the social conditions that I speak out against, new social labor relations, which are the result of these new opportunities. We've got neo-illiterate, neo- exclusion. And the whole system is being disrupted. And a lot of studying has gone into this. There are some terms that I have come up with to cover these phenomena because you've got situations when people at age 50 find themselves not knowing what they're going to do next. These are all situations which are not just a concern to me, but I want to say that with regard to all of these people who I say suffer from neo-exclusion, they are a concern to me because we don't have cyber ethics that doesn't exist. For those seated here, I think they know this is a fact. Now, if we go back 10 or 12 years, we take note of what was said. The University of Columbia and, on all continents, a lot of work was being done. Therefore, dear representative of the workers, I'd like to tell you that you're dealing here with someone who knows the House well, understands the challenges facing the House, and We're not talking about a last minute candidate because we had a change in government in my country on June 28th of this year. Because it wasn't possible with the previous government, when the new government took office, then my candidacy was submitted and we followed all of the relevant procedures. Therefore, even before thinking about DG, I can tell you that 10 years ago, I was concerned about all of these same subjects that you have just raised. In other words, thinking about how we could guarantee livelihoods for families and decent work. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. I turn to Kathleen one last time for the final question from the workers. Kathleen.

Final question of the afternoon. Mr. Gonzalez, over the years, there have been growing concerns over business models that are focusing on preserving shareholders' value and their profit at the expense of decent working conditions for workers. In light of your experience in senior positions on the business side and in government, what role do you see for the ILO to promote a business model that recognises the responsibility of business including through due diligence along the supply chain, and contributes to realizing decent work. What are, in your view, the key challenges to overcome and the key priority actions the ILO should take in addressing them? And how would you rally support from especially employers and businesses at national and international level for such actions? Thank you very much.

Thank you, Kathleen. Sir.

Allow me to begin by thanking you. You referred to my experience. You've referred to my experience as part of the public sector in Peru. I've also been in the business environment, and I'd like to say that in my experience and While I was working for the ILO, I was appreciated by my colleagues, including workers, because I brought their concerns about their working conditions to the attention of the authorities. And I did this. I represented workers, passing on information to the administration, bringing to light their concerns. Whether there was a complaint put down in writing or not, I did this. And I can tell you that we got a good outcome as a result. Now, with regard to the role of businesses, I would like to think that it might be possible that we can go back to what was it year 2000 I don't remember the exact year when there was a global business pact for inclusion something along those lines and we were requested to provide training in a number of countries a global compact or something that was the name of it something like that I was a director in Mexico Cuba and Haiti And in the timeframe of one year, and you can look this up, we trained a few, 100 companies and brought them up to speed on this. And this was also the case in Argentina. And I can tell you that this was a challenge. And I'm proud that we rose to this challenge. Also, in Argentina, we had this business compact, which had a very clear reference to social conditions. Therefore, why would we go about reinventing the wheel? If these experiences met with success, then we can repeat them. And I would like to say that from October through to November, I will be working on updating these mechanisms and processes. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much and thank you to the workers. So, colleagues, we've now completed the question and answer part of the interview. Mr. Gonzalez, Olesya Franco, I'd now like to invite you to make your concluding remarks. You have up to five minutes. The floor is yours.

Thank you very much, Chair. The first thing I would like to say is as follows. I feel blessed and very fortunate to be here. It's a privilege that you have put all of these questions to me. and even some of my responses, I did not offer you sufficient clarity. Please let me know. Send me an e-mail. I am completely available to you. And if you need an answer, I will give it to you. And if I don't have the answer, I will go and study in order to be able to give you an answer to your questions. Because we can't leave anything hanging. I would like to talk about here a kind of intellectual integrity. And I would like to commit to this kind of intellectual integrity. In the remaining seconds or minutes that I have because I understand that the time is actually being counted. I'm keeping my eye on that. But there are two or three points I'd like to make. 37. Okay. That's the time I've already spoken. Okay. This transition is unprecedented. We're talking about a transition and huge changes. It's not the fourth industrial revolution. That's incorrect because the key thing here is artificial intelligence. Now, we're lucky in that we've got a social angle on this. However, that this is an old paradigm from homo sapiens who can do more with less and in this case what they're going to be doing is they're going to achieve more with less employment. So this should be of concern to everyone. We're talking about a kind of social Darwinism here. And I've been very fortunate in life. I've had opportunities to study and to have a wonderful family. My wife, Patricia, is present here listening to me. Therefore, I am very proud and very fortunate. But we cannot live isolated on an island. You cannot isolate yourself with a clear conscience. Knowing, and the speaker's speech is to French, that just 100 meters away, just around the corner, there are many people who are finding new opportunities.

And they really don't find it in this world.

And they also aren't getting any response from the ILO. And that's why I'm saying I am well familiar with the ILO. And I know I've provided some specific responses to questions, and I think I've been clear. But no, I am not going to offer you continuity. No, that's not what I want to do, not more of the same. I want to offer you a qualitative approach that will bring benefits for the organization. I would like to work according to the original mandate because it's a fantastic mandate that this organization had at its inception. And what we want to do is to strive to achieve social justice. And then we can avoid conflicts. We can do that. That is a possibility. However, to achieve that, we need a different kind of organization to lend a helping hand to the office because the director general has to work together with all of you. And at the same time, however, the DG can offer guidance to point towards these changes that we need. Thank you.

Well, thank you very much, Mr. Gonzalez, Alicia Franco, for sharing your vision for the future of the ILO and for taking part in this exercise. So, colleagues, this brings us to the end of today's public interactive event with candidates for the post of DG of the ILO. I really want to thank all of them. all three of them for their sense of global service and contribution. That's not something that we should take for granted at all, especially given the shaky reality of multilateralism and multilateral institutions today. I've listened very carefully to all three of the candidates, and there are some key words that came up from all three of them. I think they're worth us remembering as we leave this hall. Disruption. Pragmatism, dialogue, balance, but one word that I heard from all three candidates is hope. So just to remind you that the candidate hearings will be held in private sitting during the 358th session of the governing body on 9th of November. The election is scheduled to take place on the 16th of November, and the elected candidate will take up duties on the 1st of October, 2027. So video recordings of all three interviews will be available on ILO Live following today's event in all seven ILO working languages. So it really only remains for me to once again thank the three candidates and the representatives of all of the ILO constituent groups for their participation today in today's public interactive event, for respecting the process and the timelines, Even though I have to be honest, I've never heard so many questions contained in one question. That's a whole other issue. And a very, very special thanks to the office for organizing this session, and an extra special thanks to the amazing interpreters who, I mean, really, they do an absolutely tremendous, tremendous job. Really, really.

Thank you so for the kind words.

So thank you to everyone who joined us today for their interest in the important work of this important organization. And I look forward to seeing you soon and enjoy the rest of your week. Thank you.