4th Meeting, 14th Session of the Expert Mechanism on the Right to Development

Good afternoon. The fourth meeting on the fourth session of the Expert Mechanism on the Right to Development is called to order. I am pleased to continue our fourth session with deliberations under agenda item 5A, consideration of thematic studies. We move to the second thematic discussion on illicit financial flows and the right to development. We are honored to have on the panel Ms. Elspeth Nomalhubi Berlinda Winana, Commissioner of the South Africa Human Rights Commission, Mr. Diaye, Director General of the National Offices for the Recovery of Criminal Assets; Professor Gerard Emmanuel Kamden Kamga from the University of the Free State; Mr. Max Bokwana from Thabo Beke Foundation; Dr. Kishani Udugampola representing the Rogers University, New York; and by video message, Professor Surya Deva, Special Rapporteur on the right to development, and Mrs. Juliette Rojas, representing Fundacion Gaia Amazonas. A very warm welcome to you all, and thank you for being here with us. My fellow expert, Serge Kamga, will present the draft thematic study on illicit financial flows and the right to development, and moderate the panel discussion. Serge, you have the floor.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, Excellencies, distinguished delegates. It is my pleasure to welcome you to the panel to discuss the draft study on illicit financial flows and the right to development. I'll quickly move to the context of this study, the study is built on the premises that actualization of the right to development request resources. The right to development cannot be operationalized or implemented in a vacuum, but with adequate resources. Now, Examining this, the realization of the right to development from an illicit financial flows perspective, strives to bring out a new discussive space for the protection of this important human right. This perspective provides a platform to explore the extent to which stopping, tracking, and recovering illicit financial flows can further the enjoyment of the right to development in countries of origin. I want to quickly reflect on the objective of this study. We need, through this study, to define what is illicit financial flows, to examine the nexus between illicit financial flows and the right to development, to examine whether countries, regions have legal or policy frameworks for addressing illicit financial flows, to also identify good practices, shortcomings, lessons learned, challenges, and opportunities in addressing illicit financial flows at national level. We also seek to examine whether the country have a method or methods allocated to recovering of illicit financial flows, and when these are recovered, are they allocated to human rights and including the right to development? Lastly, the study will try to examine the role of international cooperation in global partnership in addressing illicit financial flows and advance the right to development. And in terms of methodology, the study draws on the range of sources, including observations, expert panel, UN report, and material and bilateral and multilateral dialogues. It builds on international, regional, and national instruments, as well as policy documents on the right to development and illicit financial flows. It also incorporates contribution from states, civil society organizations, think tank, and all who responded to the call for input that was circulated to this effect. I want to quickly move to the structure of the study. Beside this introduction that set the context of the study, we have a second part. that present the taxonomy of illicit financial flow or the categories of illicit financial flows. You have this third part of the study that will address the scale of the problem. The fourth part explore exactly how illicit financial flows undermine the right to development. The fifth part analyzes regulatory and programmatic frameworks to tackle illicit financial flows and their link to the right to development. The fifth part explored international cooperations to address the issue. And the last and final part presents a conclusion and recommendations. Of course, we don't have enough time to get into this in details. Safe to say that quickly on the second part, it's important to note that we have tax evasion, we have tax avoidance, and other criminal activities that are the substance of illicit financial flows. I then move to the third part that speak to the scale of the problem. I want to say the problem is not an African problem or only developing countries' problem. It's a global problem because research had shown that all countries and regions in the world are struggling with illicit financial flows. And I will say, research or the latest data provided I will quickly zoom in to the one provided by the UNCTAD, the report that shows that Africa loses about $88.6 billion a year to illicit financial flows. And I would say it's not, again, unique to Africa, because when you look at North America, drug trafficking is a problem. In countries like Mexico, Colombia, the smuggling of migrants is a huge problem. In the US, where I really want to perhaps show that even the US is struggling with illicit financial flows because research has shown that the tax gap between taxes legally owed and taxes voluntarily paid was estimated at roughly $688 billion for tax year of 2021, thereby eroding public services. Drug trafficking is also a serious problem. that find fertile ground there to underground financial infrastructure. And I will say in South America, in Asia, in various parts of the world, illicit financial flow is being a serious problem. Now, to the fourth part, how does illicit financial flows undermine the right to development? You know, to achieve the human right and the right to development, The state needs available resources, the state need to have resources, yet these resources are siphoned away through illicit financial flows. Both civil and political rights, as well as economic and social rights, we have core composite of the right to development are impeded by illicit financial flows. These flows also impede equality and non-discrimination. Embezzlement deprive the poor of public good and a decent standard of living, pushing them to the bottom of the pyramid where they suffer marginalization caused by corruption and engineered by illicit financial flows operative. Illicit financial flows also first hit the government capacity to operationalize civil and political right. by taking away funds needed to train judges and police officers, to finance access to court and protect freedom of associations in various countries. And the research had shown, regarding the right to health, that 16 countries, rather than six in Africa, will have reached MDG4 on child survival by 2015 if it wasn't for illicit financial flows. Research also shows that a 1% rise in illicit outflows across sub-Saharan Africa cut welfare by 1.4 to 1.7%. So it was reported that across 139 developing countries, weaker regulatory quality and government effectiveness are associated with illicit financial flows. So the siphoning of tax revenue forces the poor and most vulnerable to face the highest tax burden. very much demonstrated by various, I would say, research, that tax abuse by corporations and high-net-worth individuals forces governments to raise revenues from other sources, often regressive taxes, the burden of which falls hardest on the poor. Now, all areas of the world, without exception, have some regulatory framework. I will not go in depth into this, the draft study is already on the web, but just to say that everywhere in the world there is legislation, there are regulatory frameworks to address these issues. But I want quickly to look at the global level where you have the United Nations Convention on the Right Against Corruption. We have The SDG agenda with specific attention to target four of goal 16, which call on state to significantly reduce illicit financial flows and arm flows, strengthen the recovery and return of stolen asset, and combat all form of organized crime. This is to be done by 2030. And this is also supported by target one of goal 17. That also reiterate the need to address illicit financial flows, with state committing to strengthen domestic resources mobilization, including through international support to developing countries to improve domestic capacity for tax and other revenue collection. It is important to mention that this is critical when they are at the global level, we are now discussing the United Nations Framework Convention on International Tax Cooperation. So this is very much in line with initiatives, global initiative, to address illicit financial flows. And I would like to say that what is the solution, because we can see that illicit financial flows are still very significant in spite of various national, regional, and sub-regional initiatives to address them. And what I suggest is that we should look at the pathways, and the pathways to deal with this goes through the right to development framework. In this regard, we move the illicit financial flows from being a victim, or remove the right to development from being a victim of illicit financial flows to becoming the solution in dealing with illicit financial flows. In this regard, we need to look into the right development corpus or the human rights corpus of the right to development. This says, it means we need to have the right to participation of state and people at the global level. where these issues are addressed. The right not to be discriminated, so we have to rely on the human rights framework provided for by the right to development. For instance, when stolen funds are repatriated, all communities should take part in deciding how to allocate them to to the enjoyment to the right to development. In the process, everyone should be included in the design of project or the sharing of benefit so that no one is left behind through political selectivity or other discriminatory ground. You know, as far as the right to self-determination is concerned, recovered funds should not be used to violate the right to self-determination of the beneficiaries. who should have full sovereignty over them and allocate them without external interference to the common good. And I will move swiftly to international cooperation. International cooperation is the key. No country, no region alone can deal successfully with illicit financial flows. We need to have international cooperation that include, that deal with tax evasion, tax avoidance, bribery. money laundering, contraband, good and numerous criminal activities such as corruption and its related attribute. Specific to fulfilling the right to development, the equal participation and decision making of developing countries is critical to impact the potential of the international organizations to effect or to effectively address illicit financial flows for states across varying levels of development. So, this is to say, although we have numerous global and regional standards, we really need international cooperation if illicit financial flows should be defeated and advance the right to development. I thank you. Thank you very much. Without further ado, I would like to present the format of discussion before giving the floor to panelists. Everybody here should have seven minutes. And it will be, I hope it will be an honest seven minutes. So, and when there will be time for discussion, it will be three minutes, and also another honest three minutes. We need to keep to time to be able to give the opportunities to everyone to contribute to the conversation. Without further ado, I want to start by giving the floor to Commissioner Quinana of the South African Human Rights Commission. My question to you, Commissioner, will be to check with you the role of national human rights institution in addressing illicit financial flows. Perhaps the South African perspective can guide us. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. Am I audible? You don't seem to hear my voice. Thank you so much. Let me stand on the protocol that has already been established. And as South African Human Rights Commission, it is so that our role really begins with human rights. We can help make harm visible. We investigate the failures, we support communities that are seeking redress and press for accountability. So through our complaints handling procedure, people bring concerns about denied or deteriorating services. A community that is experiencing a prolonged water interruption or failed development project should not have to prove and international money trade before it can raise a human rights complaint. So in terms of our South African Human Rights Commission Act, section 13, subsection three of that act number 40 of 2013, it allows us to investigate the alleged human rights violations. that would have been followed by a complaint, but sometimes it is through our own initiative as the Commission. Section 15 gives us powers to obtain information, require people to appear and produce relevant documents, and question witnesses under oath or affirmation, which is subject to statutory safeguards. We can use these powers to examine the decisions and institutional failures linked to the harm or community as they have experienced it. For example, where a water project fails, we can ask what was promised, what was budgeted for, what was delivered, and why it failed, and how people's rights were affected. Where evidence suggests financial crime, the matter can be referred to the relevant authorities with cooperation as appropriate. In terms of section 184, subsection 3 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, it requires the Commission annually to obtain information from relevant organs of state on measures taken to realize specified socio-economic rights. This allows us to examine whether public commitments and resources translate into services for communities. We can make recommendations, undertake research, educate the public and seek appropriate redress, including through proceedings before a competent court of law or a tribunal. The Constitutional Court has clarified that our remedial directives are not binding. That makes flow-through cooperation and access to justice especially important. The South African Human Rights Commission is not a criminal prosecuting authority or asset recovery agency. Our contribution is to ensure that financial investigations, recovery efforts are connected to people whose rights have been harmed. Communities, civil society organizations, journalists, whistleblowers, and human rights defenders often identify the problems first. They need access to information and safe ways to raise concerns. Women, girls, the marginalized, that would be your persons with disabilities, your older persons, they must be able to influence both the investigations in order to ascertain the harm and, of course, to design the solution. We need stronger cooperation among oversight institutions, financial intelligence, tax authorities, law enforcement, civil society, and international partners. And when public assets are recovered, there should be transparency about their return, their use for benefit of the public. Program Director, illicit financial flows are often described in billions. The human cost is felt in our clinics, in classrooms, in farms, in homes where that water is needed. As South African Human Rights Commission, we have done a number of studies. Amongst others, we've got the Life ACT many saga that happened where we saw persons with disabilities being removed from a place that would have afforded them a retreat, but they were put in areas that were not safe for their well-being, and unfortunately, they lost their lives. again, clearly there, it was because the funds were not being used properly in order to ensure that lives are being saved. We have also realized that with the other, with the right to education, where scholar transport is earmarked for a particular department, but again, it is outsourced, and this is where the children suffer the most. Children find themselves not attending schools and for a period of time, and unfortunately lose on their right to education, which is a right that is already enshrined. There is also issues around the infrastructure where we find tenderpreneurs are the ones that are at the forefront with regard to water and even other facilities that are not being built, but unfortunately, the money would have left the fiscals of government. So there are a number of ways where we have noted this. As Human Rights Commission, we then prepare the reports. We go to the portfolio committees in Parliament where we address them on these issues, where we require for them to then take this forward. Unfortunately, I must say to you, currently we face with elections that are coming up, so it hasn't been that easy to just ensure that these reports are finding the assistance that they deserve. But we continue to knock on that door, and we are hoping that someone will ultimately be held accountable in so far as the work that needs to be done. I thank you so much, program director and facilitator.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Commissioner. Monsieur More Ndiaye, je vais vous passer.

Mr. More Ndiaye, I'd like to give you the floor, and I'll give you the question in English, but you can, of course, speak in French, since we do have interpretation. So you can express yourself in the language you're most at ease in.

I will give the floor to Mr. Ndiaye, who is the Director General, National Office for the Recovery of Criminal Assets in Senegal. I would like to check with you why the effective recovery of assets is a human rights issue, how recovered assets can genuinely benefit development and population, and what lessons the Senegal experience offer for Africa and international community. Thank you very much. Over to you, sir.

Thank you very much. As you said, I will express myself in French.

Chair, moderator, panelists, ladies and gentlemen, At the outset, I'd like to thank the organizers for having placed asset recovery at the heart of this discussion on the right to development. In the time I have, I'd like to quickly respond to three questions. First, why asset recovery is a human rights matter. In order to respond to this, it's important that first we understand The same thing with respect to illicit financial flows and illicit assets. I must say that there's no consensus on the definition of illicit financial flows. According to those who have a narrow idea of what it means, illicit financial flows are cross-border movements of capital through criminal activities such as corruption, money laundering, drug trafficking, tax fraud, and so on. For those who take a broader approach, these flows also include aggressive optimisation practices that are considered to be contrary to ethics. So we'll use the first definition. I'll start from a simple belief: illicit financial flows are not victimless offences. When public funds are embezzled or where the product of drug trafficking, fraud, or illegal gold mining is washed abroad, There is no abstract loss. It's a classroom that won't be built, a healthcare center without medicine, a young person without prospects. The figures are known. While there is opacity often around illicit financial flows, there are attempts to evaluate the flows. They might be approximations, but we have figures. I'd like to recall that UNCTAD for example, has estimated that every year Africa loses 88.6 billion American dollars to the illicit flow of capital, which is some 3.7% of the continent's GDP. This is a sum similar to all of the ODA and FDI that is received. UNCTAD also noted that countries with high levels of illicit financial flows spend on average 25% less on health and 58% less on education than countries where these flows are lower, and it is women and girls that bear the biggest brunt here. And this is why asset recovery relates to human rights. The African Charter on Peoples and Human Rights is explicit. Article 21 says that people shall freely dispose of their wealth and natural resources, and in the case of dispossession, they have the right to lawful recovery of property and adequate compensation. Article 22 notes the right to economic, social, and cultural development. This is an obligation, namely for states to ensure the right to development. The UN Declaration on the Right to Development of 1986, whose 40th anniversary we will be celebrating in December, puts the human at the heart of development. The individual is the central subject, the active participant and the beneficiary of development. The UN Convention Against Corruption makes asset restitution a fundamental principle in Article 51, and the Human Rights Council several times has underscored the negative impact of the non-restitution of funds of illicit origin on the exercise of human rights. Financial Action Task Force standards in its recommendations and immediate outcomes recommend with respect to combating money laundering, financing of terrorism and other related offences, that seizure and confiscation measures are taken by the relevant authorities, and that the effective beneficiaries of legal entities and arrangements are identified and that international cooperation is effective. that criminal activity that undermines the integrity of the financial system is a denial of rights, and effective recovery is a form of reparation. The second question then is how recovered assets can really benefit development and population. But recovery is not enough. Recovered assets can be lost again through opacity, depreciation, or further embezzlement. The question is therefore not just knowing how or how much we recover, but what happens next? So there are four conditions that are important here. First, preserving the value from the very first day. Second, transparency and traceability. Third, a clear link with development priorities. And fourth, participation and accountability. So, what is Senegal's experience on this? I'd like to share Senegal's experience. Our country decided to create a dedicated institution on this, the National Office for Recovery of Criminal CERTS was established in 2021 and has been operational since 2022. It's under the purview of the Ministry of Justice and the Ministry of Finance, which links the criminal justice system with public finance. We also have adopted laws on the matter. We go beyond technical assistance. We covered the lifecycle of the good from seizure to confiscation, restitution, and compensation. We also established a financial judicial pool, and our legal framework was strengthened with respect to special seizure and confiscation. We've recovered over 50 billion CFA francs, so the results are tangible. Recovery of asset must provide logistical support to those who are fighting to ensure the effective fight against offences related to illicit financial flows. We, in our office, have then been providing financial support to those in the criminal justice system to an amount of 430 million. FCFA, we've also carried out training on seizure and confiscation, for example. I'd like to note five learnings then. One, a dedicated office changes the game, a body that is specialized on this. Two, management starts with seizure, not confiscation. Three, the entire criminal system must be involved. And four, transparency is a strategy, not a restriction. Fifth, no country can recover alone. And so what can international cooperation bring? International cooperation is important. Since 2025, Senegal has been chairing an interagency network for asset recovery in Western Africa. This body and other channels of cooperation mean that every day we're seeing that international cooperation is a real powerful lever in combating these illicit financial flows. Based on our experience, I'd like to say the following to our international partners: make restitution an obligation, not a concession. Make transparency on the beneficiaries effective. Recognise and implement Africa's confiscation orders. We need to support the African position on this and build mutual trust. In conclusion, The right to development cannot be achieved while resources to fund it are hidden in foreign accounts or elsewhere. Senegal shows that with political will, dedicated institutions, transparency and cooperation, African states can turn criminal products into an instrument of justice and development. So let’s make this the rule rather than the exception. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ndiaye. I'll now give the floor to Professor Gerard Emmanuel Kamga from the University of the Free State in South Africa.

I would like you to engage us on the definition and the scale of the problems. What are illicit financial flows? Given the broadness of this issue, how will you define it and what is the scale of the problem?

Thank you. Thank you very much, Chair. I take this opportunity as well to convey my congratulations to the members of the expert mechanism and for organizing an important event like this one. I think we can start by saying that for the past years, Africa's development challenge has often been framed as a shortage of financial resources. This is often accompanied with calls for increased foreign aid, concessional lending, and international assistance. Yet, We must also confront a more fundamental question: what happens to the resources that Africa already generates? This brings me to the issue of illicit financial flows. Illicit financial flows amount to money or assets that are illegally earned, illegally transferred, or illegally used, including movement across borders that evade applicable legal requirement. They arise from several sources, including commercial activities that represent up to 65%, criminal activity 30%, and corruption 5%. So it is important, therefore, to emphasize that the significance of this figure is not merely financial, because every dollar diverted from the legitimate public purposes potentially represent a road not built, a classroom not equipped, or a health facility not funded. It is therefore imperative to reclaim the right to development. But since yesterday, there have been excellent development regarding the 40th anniversary of the United 1986 United Nations Declaration on the Right to Development. So I'm not going to expand on that. However, it is vital to emphasize that the right to development should not depend exclusively on the willingness of donors to provide resources. African state must also be equipped with the right tool to reclaim asset illicitly removed from their economies and ensure that those resources benefit their populations, which brings me to look at the role of state institutions. Within our state, we have many agencies, anti-corruption agencies, financial intelligence unit, judiciary, and so on and so forth. Yet, sometimes this does not automatically guarantee success. The priority, therefore, is not simply to establish more institutions, but to ensure that existing ones are independent, adequately resourced, professionally equipped. How to resolve this challenge? I can say that at the continental level, Africa has developed an important policy framework. known as the Common African Position on Asset Recovery. It was adopted in 2020, but it seems it's already been seven years already, but it is still relatively unknown. But I can guarantee you that this policy remains very promising and full of potential. RAPPAR, that is the short of what I just mentioned, provides guidance for identifying, tracing, repatriating, and managing Africa's illicitly removed assets for the common good of everyone. It can then be said that asset recovery advances the right to development in at least four ways. First, it strengthen domestic resource mobilization. Second, it promote accountability. Third, it contribute to reparative justice. Fourth, it promote policy coherence. Chairperson, allow me to conclude with three priorities. First, African state must strengthen the independence, capacity, and coordination of their institutions. while improving information sharing and cross-border investigations. Second, the African Union and its member states should reinforce the implementation of CAPA and support the African Asset Recovery Practitioners Forum as a practical mechanism for cooperation, professional learning, and accountability. Third, asset recovery arrangements must place development outcomes at their centre. Recovered resources should be managed transparently and used in ways that advance public welfare, human dignity, and the effective enjoyment of human rights. Again, as we mentioned, The African continent has been losing nearly 90 billion US dollar a year, and this figure really dates back from six years ago, so I think it is saving time that this needs to be updated. That is why, to conclude, I say the right to development requires us not only to mobilize new resources, but also to reclaim, protect, and equitably use the resources that have been illicitly taken away. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Professor Kamga. Now we give the floor to the Chief Executive Officer of the Thabo Mbeki Foundation, Mr. Mark Bokone, who has been very much involved in the development of policies on illicit financial flows in Africa. Sir, I want to quickly ask you the following question. share with us the good practices, shortcomings, and lessons learned in implementing the recommendation of the African Union/Mbeki High-Level Panel on Illicit Financial Flows. Over to you, sir.

Prof, thank you very much. I thought, let me start somewhere else. With all of the technical definitions that have been given, The issue of illicit financial flows is a deeply political issue. From our perspective in the African continent, this is the continuation of the colonial legacy, the one done drainage of resources from the African continent to the countries of the North. My colleagues have given the definitions. the extent and the complications that follows this phenomenon. But I think the best description of it comes from Pope Francis, who describes the illicit financial flows as the structures of sin. These are structures of sin because there are many people that, for their own material accumulation, will make sure that the resources are drained from the poor, and therefore the issue of right to development becomes an illusion. The second issue is what Professor Kamga had raised earlier on, that almost 65% of the illicit flows comes from commercial arrangements, About 35% of that might involve corruption and other matters, but if in the bigger scheme of things, the poor governments or the governments of the developing countries are the ones that are blamed for this phenomenon. The third issue I wanted to raise is this enduring legacy of exploitation. You will recall, Chair, that The relationship between Africa and the Western world initially has been the one of slavery, followed by the one of colonialism, and later on by the one of structural adjustments. Beyond structural adjustments, you had to deal with neo-colonialism. At the present moment, we're dealing with something called foreign direct investments. The experts around this table I would like one of them to advise me which of these countries have achieved its developmental goals based on foreign direct investment, but I think what is central there is the issue of illicit financial flows. The negative impact have already been discussed, but in the end, if this phenomenon continues, it makes Africa continue to be home to the least developed countries, to most hungry children in the world, to most displaced persons in the world, to most exploited women and a population burdened by disease. When we presented the report of the AU panel, There are four things, Prof, that came out clearly in that report. The first thing is that at least we managed to do the codification of the problem. Now, we understand the problem we're dealing with. The second thing which we had objectives of is the undoubted advocacy work that follows the production of that report. And I think there's a better understanding of this phenomenon today. And third issue is that most countries are today developing plans and strategies to enhance domestic resource mobilization, which includes the strengthening of revenue authorities, customs officials, law enforcement, and judiciary. Importantly, is the deepening use of technology, which is becoming a game changer, especially regarding the illicit financial flows. There are other matters that are clear as far as we've been going around in terms of implementing the report, is that most countries have adopted these strategies and strengthening anti-corruption agencies. intelligence centers and administration. We've also seen that within the continent, most of the countries in the continent have now ratified the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters. The NGOs in the continent, Tax Justice Network, Coalition for Dialogue in Africa, Trust Africa, have been seized With the issue of monitoring the implementation of the strategies on the recommendations of the panel, a new tracker has been launched by the Tax Justice Network at an event in London last month, which begins to reveal how much tax revenues are being lost by which country going to which other country. And lastly, Prof, we've been wandering around the world trying to promote this UN framework convention on international tax cooperation, which President Mbeki has been very persistent in terms of its operationalization. We are glad that that now is on the table, where both the rich and the developing countries can be on the same platform to negotiate tax matters. I'm sure all of us will, like Pope Francis, agree and be bold to declare that the illicit financial flows are an affront to right to development, Therefore, the work to end illicit financial flows is no work of charity, but of justice and redress. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, sir. We're now going to give the floor to Dr. Kishani Udugampola from Rutgers University. I have a question related to sanctions, shadow economies, and the right to development, rethinking financial crime and the human rights nexus. Thank you very much. Over to you, Kishan.

Thank you. I'm just looking for the slides. OK, thank you. I would like to begin by expressing my sincere gratitude to Professor and Dean Serge Kamga for the invitation to present my policy proposition on sanctions, shadow economies, and the right to development, rethinking the financial crime human rights nexus. I would also like to thank the organizers and everyone who has made this opportunity possible and for bringing together people working toward a common goal of advancing financial integrity and economic development. As a Fulbright U.S. Scholar currently serving at the University of the Free State Faculty of Law, I have been examining the intersection of financial crime, international sanctions, illicit financial flows, and the right to development, particularly in the African context. So the question I would like to explore today is, how can we disrupt illicit financial networks and strengthen financial integrity without undermining the very right to development that these efforts should ultimately protect? To address this challenge, I propose a policy framework that connects financial crime prevention with human security, institutional resilience, and sustainable economic development. The objective is to move beyond a narrow focus on detecting and disrupting illicit financial activity and toward a more comprehensive approach that also considers recovery, reinvestment, and measurable development outcomes. Ultimately, I believe that financial integrity should not be viewed as an end in itself. It should also serve as a means of protecting communities, strengthening institutions, recovering resources lost to illicit activity, and ensuring that those resources contribute to meaningful economic development. With that in mind, I would like to walk you through the framework and discuss how we can rethink the financial crime human rights nexus in a way that brings these objectives together. Next slide, please. My argument is not that sanctions are inherently harmful, nor that financial crime control should be weakened. My question is whether we are measuring effectiveness too narrowly. If enforcement closes illicit channels but also pushes legitimate economic activity into less transparent channels, we may solve one risk while creating another. So my central question is therefore: how do we combat illicit financial and sanctions circumvention without undermining the right to development of people who depend on legitimate trade, finance, and essential services? Next slide, please. These systems are often treated as separate policy domains. The right to development lens connects them. Financial crime drains development resources. Sanctions seek to change behavior and restrict harmful financial capacity. But sanctions circumvention can create alternative networks, while overcompliance can reduce access to legitimate finance. One critical intersection is this shadow economy. Next slide, please. The first side of the nexus is familiar: illicit finance is not victimless. The loss is transmitted through the economy. The UN Office of the Special Adviser on Africa cites that widely used estimate of approximately $88.6 billion in annual illicit financial flows from Africa. My point is to translate that financial loss into development questions. What happens to the capacity of states and communities to realize development and socioeconomic rights when value continually leaves the formal economy? Next slide, please. This is where my financial crime perspective becomes important. Sanctions circumvention can involve shell companies, opaque ownership, front companies, trade-based money laundering, alternative payments, informal value transfer, and complex trade routes. But we must be careful here. Informal finance is not synonymous with criminal finance. The risk arises when legitimate economic migration reduces transparency and creates spaces that illicit actors can exploit. Next slide, please. This is the conceptual contribution I want to emphasize. There can be two forms of diversion. First, criminal or illicit flows divert resources away from development. Second, if legitimate users are excluded from formal finance through excessive de-risking, high barriers, or over-compliance, legitimate activity may migrate into less transparent spaces. The objective is therefore not weaker enforcement; it is a better calibrated enforcement. Next slide, please. This lead to the proposed right to develop my financial resilient test, or what I call RTD FRT. The framework looks at five dimensions: development leakage, financial exclusion, shadow economy migration, illicit network adaptation, and development conversion. I want to stress that these are proposed policy dimensions, not established UN indicators. They require pilot testing, empirical validation. The innovation is to measure both sides: the harm caused by illicit finance and the potential development consequences of financial exclusion. while also asking whether recovered value actually becomes development value. Next slide, please. This is the policy shift I'm proposing. We should still protect the system, detect illicit finance, disrupt illicit networks, and recover assets, but we should add reinvestment and measurement. In other words, follow the money all the way through the development chain. Asset recovery should not necessarily be the endpoint. We should also ask what development value is created after recovery. This is where I propose exploring the development conversion ratio as a future policy metric. This multi-step version, where trace becomes the expedited bridge between enforcement and recovery, while measure closes the loop back to RTD FRT, while preserving legitimate financial capacity and advancing development outcomes. Last slide, please. The proposition is that financial integrity is stronger when legitimate activity remains visible, viable, and connected to the formal financial system. A resilient system is one that can identify and disrupt illicit finance without unnecessarily pushing the legitimate economic activity into the shadows. This is the purpose of the RTD FRT. To create a framework for asking, not only did the intervention stop illicit finance, but also what happened to the legitimate financial capacity and development afterward? And that is the research agenda I'm proposing for further empirical testing. Follow the money, recover the value, protect the channel, follow the development. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Dr. Kishani. Thank you so much. Now we will listen to Prof. Surya Deeva, the Special Rapporteur on the Right to Development, who will be speaking to us via video message. We've asked him to examine illicit financial flows as barriers to the operationalization of the right to development. So we can listen to his presentation on a video message. Thank you.

Excellencies, distinguished delegates, ladies and gentlemen, at the outset, I would like to thank the Expert Mechanism for convening this panel discussion on illicit financial flows and right to development, and also for inviting me to share my thoughts on this particular theme. I cannot be there in person, but I am glad that I am able to share my thoughts through this video message. In my brief remarks, I would like to focus on three aspects. First of all, I would like to briefly highlight how illicit financial flows impact the realization of right to development all over the world, but especially in the global South. Secondly, I will talk about how right to development can be used to combat illicit financial flows. And finally, I will talk about how right to development and other human rights should be used as a guiding torch to realize how the money is spent, the recovered assets are spent, to realize sustainable development goals as well as other human rights. So let us start with the impact of illicit financial flows on the realization of right to development. It is widely documented that illicit financial flows mean that many countries, especially developing countries, lose significant amount of resources, whether this is because of tax evasion or avoidance or money laundering. And it is estimated, for instance, that even Africa alone loses around 90 billion US dollars every year on illicit financial flows, and this is a very significant amount. So if we have gaps in realizing right to development, or if there is not enough money to finance the climate transition towards a green economy, then these stolen funds definitely are one of the reasons, one of the factors why we are suffering this. But I would also like to suggest that the impact is not merely on the economic development dimension. Even the political dimension of right to development is impacted by the illicit financial flows. Often, illicit financial flows involve corruption. And because of that corruption, the political development is undermined. In addition, one can argue that the social development is also undermined because illicit financial flows contribute to inequalities and poverty, and they destroy the social cohesion. The impact of this illicit financial flows is felt by countries and people all over the world, but it is very well documented that global south or the global majority suffers more. Now let me move on to the second aspect that I wish to touch upon, which is about the role of right to development in combating illicit financial flows. So right to development is not merely a victim of illicit financial flows, it also provides some concrete solutions. International cooperation is a key component of right to development. States have a duty to cooperate, and this duty to cooperate is so fundamental to combat and to prevent illicit financial flows, it is also critical to recover these stolen assets. So whether it is about tax evasion or tax avoidance, or it is about combating corruption, or we are dealing with money laundering prevention or prosecution of any of these crimes, it is crucial that states are able to collaborate effectively. Because illicit financial flows is happening across borders, if the states do not come together to cooperate, and there should be this element of reciprocity, that both sides are gaining an advantage and benefiting. One side may gain an advantage to recover the financial resources, but the other state may also benefit because those funds may not be used to finance terrorist activities. So whether it is about investigation or prosecution, or it is about the enforcement of judgments, duty to cooperate is a key component of these efforts. Finally, let me briefly talk about the role of human rights, in particular the right to development, in relation to combating illicit financial flows, but how that money is being used to to deal with, to promote human rights. Let me start with the principle of participation. Right to development requires active, free, and meaningful participation in decision-making processes. So when the funds are recovered, it is crucial that people are able to participate effectively in those processes, that how those funds are to be spent. Non-discrimination is another component of right to development. It's also an independent human right, right to equality and non-discrimination. And non-discrimination is relevant at least in two contexts in relation to illicit financial flows. First of all, when the governments are taking some measures to recover illicit financial flows, the assets that have been taken abroad, then the non-discrimination principle will require that there is no political selectivity exercised in that particular regard. Secondly, once the funds are recovered, then they should be benefiting everyone, not merely only certain sections of society. Right to development also expects fair distribution of benefits. And if we apply this principle to the how the illicit financial flows, the recovered assets are going to be used, then we can argue that the fund should be used first to benefit those who are furthest behind, because some people in society are at a significant disadvantage because of the illicit financial flows. So when the funds are recovered, they should be the first one to benefit. That's how the funds should be allocated. Self-written Self-determination is also relevant in the context of how recovered funds are to be used. We should not allow the spending of these funds in a way that will undermine the principle of self-determination. And finally, we should keep in mind that the funds that are recovered are not used to finance war economies. Why is this so? Because right to development requires the principle of disarmament. If the funds are used to finance war economies, to spend on military and arms, then this is not really helping what I will call a peace economy. So it is critical that the funds are not merely recovered, but they're recovered and used for a common good that is going to benefit the whole society. So thank you very much once again for your attention, and I very much hope the discussion at this side event will inform the report of the expert mechanism going forward. Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much, Prof. Dever. Thank you for the video message, much appreciated. We will immediately move to Ms. Juliette Rojas from Amazona. We sent a message, a video message too, on illicit financial flows and indigenous peoples' rights to development. in the Amazon Basin and in Latin America.

Moderator of the panel and member of the Expert Mechanism on the Right to Development, distinguished members of the Mechanism, colleagues, panellists, representatives of States and civil society, good afternoon. I am David Parela, the coordinator of the socio-legal laboratory of the Gaia Amazonas Foundation in Colombia.

The interpreters would point out that the sound is substandard for interpretation purposes. We apologize. It's very, very difficult to hear the speaker.

Around the protection of cultural diversity, biological diversity, and the materialization and effective compliance of the political constitution.

The effective compliance of the 1991 Constitution. We are grateful for the invitation to this panel. The draft of the International Covenant on the Right to Development establishes that all peoples can dispose freely of their wealth and their natural resources. And it adds that under no circumstances can a people be deprived of their own livelihoods. In the Colombian Amazon, the illegal mining of gold is exactly the contrary of this. We've seen illicit financial flows, which enriches criminal networks, whereas in the rivers, in foods, and in the bodies of people, there are traces of mercury. We'd like to share with you the case of the Maricá Puri, the indigenous community. This is an extense territorial and cultural expansion in the Colombian Amazon, which is made-up of four indigenous territories, the Miritipaná and the Rio Paraná, as well as two others, which make up 3.2 million hectares. This territory is made-up of indigenous territorial communities, natural reserves and parks, and forest reserves. And it's one of the best conserved ecosystems of the planet. And this is no coincidence. It is the outcome of the coordination between the indigenous peoples, the state, and the army for generations. Over 40 peoples live here, which share cultural affinities. In 2011, UNESCO said that Juwarpari peoples were a part of cultural heritage. This system is alive and well. It determines where one can fish, where one can sow seeds, when the rivers and forests should rest, and the people and the health of people rely on this. Currently, the macro territory have, in the political constitution of Colombia, seen a transformation, a political and legal transformation system. These four indigenous territories have been made-up of territorial land, that is to say, local structures of government, which are part of the administrative legal system of the Colombian state. However, this territory is a victim of illegal mining, and this for decades. we have seen mercury being used to separate gold. Mercury ends up in the water, it goes then onto fish and then ends up in food. The mining doesn't happen alone, it goes hand in hand with the presence of illegal armed actors, where we see extortion, displacement, and forced recruitment. Gold is financing these actors and these actors are controlling the rivers. This phenomenon is cross-border in nature. For decades, we have documented the entry and exit to Brazil. We have uncontrolled crossings of borders, and we've seen illicit financial flows in the most specific meaning of the term. profits then go to the criminal gangs. In 2019, the four Indigenous territories of the area that I've mentioned requested a judicial mechanism set forth in the constitution to protect the fundamental rights in an effective fashion. And A request was made for the fundamental protection of identity, territory, self-determination, life, health, water, healthy environment, food sovereignty, as amongst others. In March 2025, the Constitutional Court of Colombia handed down a judgment. The court noted that the gold mining is the main cause of mercury pollution in the Amazon. Also, the Court found that mercury is present in water, in fish, in plants, and in human bodies, and in many cases, the levels of pollution because of mercury exceed the standards required by the WHO. The situation for the Court has jeopardized the physical and cultural survival of the indigenous people living in that land and affects their fundamental rights. That is why the judgment handed down by the Constitutional Court adopted 32 orders in which 27 bodies have been identified. And I'd like to present three lessons here: the importance of intercultural dialogue, coordination, and inter-institutional coordination. This dialogue involves a reciprocal respectful and symmetrical dialogue between the public authorities, the indigenous public authorities and non-indigenous authorities to look at differentiated responsibilities and move towards fulfilling the orders of the Constitutional Court. Secondly, the need to move forward to implement the instruments of the indigenous governments. These people are not only beneficiaries, but are public authorities making up the structure of the Colombian state. Therefore, They have constitutional competencies, legal competencies, and a set of instruments to overcome problematic situations within their territories. And the third lesson is the need for public bodies and entities to have financial, technical, and human resources so as to fulfill the judgment. This means that there must be some specific budget lines set aside. for each of the entities involved, the major challenge of implementation is effective. Now, on paper, the change cannot become a reality. We need to move towards overcoming risks to the cultural survival of the Indigenous peoples living in the lands I mentioned. This must strike all of us That is to say, the countries where the gold is being sold and refined, and also the international community in the markets.

The interpreters will point out that the sound was extremely poor. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I think we can now open the floor for individual states' contributions. and other stakeholders' inputs. Please, let's keep our statement to strict three minutes to enable everyone to contribute. So we must make sure that no one is left behind. We will start with the contribution of South Africa.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks to the expert mechanism and Professor Kamga and all the panelists for convening this timely discussion on the relationship between illicit financial flows and the realization of the right to development. South Africa aligns with the principles of Declaration on the Rights to Development and recognizes that illicit financial flows constitute a significant structural barrier to sustainable, inclusive, and people-centered development. As noted by the panelists, illicit financial flows deprive states and peoples of the resources necessary to advance economic, social, and cultural rights, and also combat poverty and inequality, and also to achieve the sustainable development goals. South African experience demonstrates both harmful consequences of illicit financial flows and the importance of robust institutional responses. Illicit financial flows arising from tax evasion, base erosion, and profit shifting Trade misinvoicing, corruption, money laundering, and illicit transfer of proceeds from criminal activity continue to undermine domestic resource mobilization. These flows reduce the fiscal space required to invest in education, health care, social protection, infrastructure development, and job creation. For a country confronting persistent levels of inequality, unemployment, and poverty, the diversion of public resources through illicit channels directly impacts our ability to realize the right to development for all citizens. It also weakens public trust in institutions and exacerbates socio-economic disparities. South Africa therefore supports efforts to strengthen global financial integrity systems, promote equitable international cooperation, and ensure that resources generated within countries contribute to the well-being and development of all the peoples. We must move from merely tracing illicit financial flows to transforming them into opportunities for development. accountability and social justice. Doing so is essential if we are able to fulfill the promise of the right development and also to leave no one behind. I thank you.

Thank you very much, sir. We move to get the contribution of the representative of the African Union.

Thank you, Mr. Moderator. I would like to Thank all the presenters for their very insightful presentations. From the African Union Commission, illicit financial flow remain one of the most significant barrier to the realization of the right to development in Africa. Every year, vast resources leaves the continent through corruption, tax evasion, aggressive tax avoidance, trade misinvoicing, money laundering, and the illicit exploitation of natural resources. These are resources that should be financing school, hospital, infrastructure, social protection program, and economic opportunity for our people. Instead, they continue to be diverted away from development. The implications are profound. When public resources are lost, development is delayed. When development is delayed, rights are denied. And when rights are denied, the promise of the right to development remain unfulfilled. This is why illicit financial flows must not be viewed solely as through, solely through the lens of financial regulation or anti-corruption. They are also human rights challenge, a development challenge, and increasingly a governance and justice challenge. The resources lost through illicit financial flows could transform millions of lives. The cost is therefore measured not only in financial terms, but in missed opportunity for development, inclusion, and human dignity. Women, children, young people, persons with disabilities, and vulnerable communities often bear the greatest burden when public resources are diverted away from essential services. Combating illicit financial flow is therefore indispensable to advancing economic, social, and cultural rights, and to realizing the right to development for all. Africa has taken important steps to respond to this challenge. The African Union Convention on Preventing and Combating Corruption, together with the Common African Position on Asset Recovery, called CAPA, provide an important framework for preventing illicit financial flow and restarting asset recovery. Let me give some few recommendations. First of all, we encourage the expert mechanism to affirm that the recovery and return of stolen asset is an integral part of international cooperation for the realization of the right to development. In practical terms, we call for establishment of a time-bound asset recovery procedure to reduce excessive delays, enhance use of non-conviction based confiscation measures consistent with national legal framework and international law, stronger cooperation among financial intelligence unit and anti-corruption agencies and judicial authorities. Second, assets stolen from developing countries should not remain indefinitely in a foreign jurisdiction while development need continue to grow. Third, Africa will come the ongoing negotiation toward the unified United Nations Convention on International Tax Cooperation. These negotiations present a historic opportunity to address structural weakness that enable illicit financial flow and erode domestic resource mobilization. I thank you.

Thank you very much. We move to listen to APG 23. Over to you.

APG 23 thanks the distinguished panellists for their insights and commends the expert mechanism and Professor Kamga for the focus chosen for this draft study and the possibility to share some consideration on such topic. The panel discussion has disclosed deep interlinkages among human rights, development, economic and financial trade, and fiscal architecture, and their governance at the global, regional, and national level, even in the most technical aspects. As a first consideration, we want to underline that all of these are also human rights issues. Therefore, it is necessary that the human rights perspective is always included in the relating policy discussion and decisions. The second consideration is that illicit financial flows are a shared problem between developed and developing countries, not only unilateral leakage. Addressing it should rely on shared action and mutual accountability, while the magnitude of the resources that could be recovered and retained would enhance the achievement of common commitments, like the underfunded 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development. The third consideration is that taking illicit financial flow is not just a matter of closing financial gaps, but of restoring justice and democracy. It requires addressing the inequities of global economic governance rooted in the global power asymmetries and neo-colonial structure of exploitation, such as the gaps and distortion of the international taxation system or the data opacity across value change. This leads to our fourth consideration, which recalls the non-binding set of practical guidelines for efficient asset recovery proposed by the independent expert on foreign debt, Professor Atia Warris, in the 2023 thematic report. The right to development approach should play a key role in orienting the repatriation, management, and destination of stolen public assets. Furthermore, we underline the impactful contribution that the recognition of the right to international solidarity could give to foster international cooperation in asset recovery. Our last consideration is on the intrinsic character of illicit financial flows. which is multidimensional and transnational, and cuts across different jurisdictions. Therefore, to address and mitigate this phenomenon, we need multidimensional, transnational, and cross-cultural tools. Especially, we need UN-based initiatives and normative frameworks that reconcile national jurisdiction with international law by closing gaps and overcoming inconsistencies. In this regard, we believe that the contrast to illicit financial flows and their human rights impact could be mutually reinforced by advancing the reform of the international financial architecture and finalizing three ongoing negotiation processes. on international tax cooperation, on a legally binding instrument on transnational cooperation and other business enterprises, and on the draft convention on the right to development. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We give the floor to CETIM organization.

Over to you.

Thank you, Chair. Your working department contains many important elements, and I am pleased to make some observations. I would like to note for the interpreters that I don't have a written text, but I would like to make some observations. Chair, the implementation of social, economic and cultural rights and the right to development in particular, is undermined by international financial architecture. Studies on illicit financial flows focus often on organised crime and the underground economy. However, sophisticated tax fraud and other crimes represent colossal sums. In your working document, Chair, you have mentioned several figures to this end. With respect to tax fraud or tax optimisation, whatever we call it, the results are the same. These revenues are important for states and this deprives them of being able to implement the right to development and socio-cultural rights. It's not about exonerating states from their obligations. We're also seeing a new, very worrying phenomenon. the availability of liquidity and digital transactions are related to transparency, and I also note the need for constant financial monitoring. This sometimes excludes the most poor groups. How can we justify also that In an era where we have telecommunications, we are able to always carry out geolocation and analyse everything, and yet the only real freedom that seems to be preserved is that of concealing your capital. This institutional complicity discredits certain public institutions with respect to human rights. Fiscal justice is an absolute urgency. If we really want to implement the right to development, we need a paradigm shift, Chair. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attention.

Thank you very much for the observations. We will give the floor now to Africa Culture International.

Thank you, Chair. It's an honor for Africa Culture International to take the floor on illicit financial flows and their impact on the right to development. These are a major obstacle to development. According to UNCTAD estimates, over 80 billion dollars leave Africa every year in the form of illicit financial flows. These deprive states of essential resources for education, health, and infrastructure, as well as social protection. Illicit financial flows undermine the right to development, as set out in the UN declaration of 1986. The right to development is an inalienable human right. Illicit financial flows deprive the population of key resources for their fundamental rights. They lead to poverty, they increase inequalities, and they make institutions weaker. International responsibility must be shared. Chair, illicit flows often go through shell companies and other opaque bodies as well as foreign jurisdictions. States that facilitate the concealment and laundering must also act. We need international cooperation on the basis of shared responsibility, transparency, tax justice, especially or in particular between the North and South. I have five recommendations: first, recognize illicit financial flows as a major obstacle to the right to development; two, strengthen tax transparency and international transparency; three, build international legal frameworks; fourth, examine the role of private sectors in other areas; fifth, implement asset restitution; chair development is a fundamental right. Every embezzled resource is something that is not constructed in practice, they are social programs that do not have resources and so on. Fiscal justice, transparency and responsible international action is very important and this will contribute to the development in our continent. We must promote a just and inclusive development that respects human rights, alongside the expert mechanism, civil society, and other stakeholders. Thank you.

Thank you very much for the input. We give the floor to Humanity First.

Thank you, Chair. I speak as finance director of Humanity First UK, which is an international development and disaster relief charity. At Humanity First UK, we see how much difference modest funding can make to a community. That makes the loss of resources through illicit financial flows particularly troubling, where basic services are already under pressure. Today's discussion has rightly focused on preventing these flows and recovering assets. I would like to focus on what happens after the money is returned. It is possible to recover assets successfully and still fail the people who should benefit. A transfer into a government account tells us that the money has been returned. It tells us very little about whether it will reach the communities affected by its loss. We encourage the Expert Mechanism to address this in its forthcoming study. There should be a clear public account of what has been recovered, how it will be used, and who is responsible. People should be able to follow what happens to the money. If funds are allocated to a hospital or a water project, reporting should show whether that service was delivered, rather than simply whether the budget was spent. Communities also need a meaningful say. Consultation has limited value if priorities have already been agreed before people are asked. Those affected should be involved early enough to influence how resources are used, including people who struggle to get their voices heard. This means treating people as right holders, with a say in their own development and a way to challenge decisions that affect them. There is also a difficult practical question. where weaknesses on oversight allowed resources to be diverted in the first place. What will prevent it happening again? Independent scrutiny and a credible route for raising concerns should be part of the arrangements for returned assets. At the same time, safeguards must not become an excuse to delay returning money, or allow external actors to decide a country’s priorities. Countries pursuing recovery need practical cooperation and support, along with respect for their ownership of the process. Chair, our request is that the study provides practical guidance on these issues, public reporting, community involvement, and oversight after assets have been returned. For us, The real measure of success is whether people experience a lasting improvement in their lives and whether they have a voice in how that improvement is achieved. Thank you.

Thank you very much for the recommendations. We give the floor to the representative of Cuba.

Moderator, thank you very much indeed. Combating illicit financial flows is vital to finance development. In a context marked by the broadening of financing gaps and the unequal movement towards complying with the SDGs, preventing the loss of these flows is more urgent than ever. Illicit financial flows deviate necessary funds for development, they feed corruption and organized crime, and weaken governance and public trust. The resources that are lost as a result of illicit financial flows are resources that are no longer available to build schools, provide staff in hospitals, and offer housing, create employment, and fund the priorities, development priorities of countries. It is a shared responsibility in the face of these global surges, as is also to promote international cooperation, including the transfer of technology and capacity building to attain this goal. Cuba supports the process embarked upon to establish a framework convention on international cooperation when it comes to taxation, and this is vital to combat illicit financial flows, evasion, and tax evasion. The reform of the international financial architecture can no longer be postponed. Promoting a fairer, equitable and democratic economic order is urgent. It is only in this way that we will be able to better draw on all of the resources for development. Cuba will continue to be committed to defend the full realization of the right to development. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. We give the floor to Ismo.

Thank you, Professor.

I'd like to make some comments and ask some questions. I haven't got a written statement because it reflects the nature of just exchanging on what's been said from the panel and the other state speakers in the room. So I'd like to support and commend all of the speakers, those from States, but also those from civil society, of course. I'd like to make an initial remark on the work of the Human Rights Council on this matter, namely the 15-year-old resolution now of the issue of the non-repatriation of illicit flows back to their country of origin and its impact on human rights, namely the right to development. Of course, that was adopted following the Arab Spring some 15 years ago, which was a peaceful movement that took place in Tunisia, Libya, and elsewhere, and the people They also were saying that the money from dictators was not their money, and that money should be returned. The Special Rapporteur mentioned that it wasn't just a matter of money, it was a matter of ensuring justice and visibility. with respect to that, and that these funds are so important to the population for dignity, for justice, for combating corruption. And so I'd like to make a second comment then. This body, or to this body and this mechanism that benefits from the Human Rights Council, there are reports from advisory bodies and other bodies under the Human Rights Council on this topic. Of course, the recovery of assets can take 15 to 20 years, for example, and not all of the funds are recovered. And we can also benefit from good practices in Switzerland, for example, with respect to the reimbursement of legal costs, for example. There is also the assumption of innocence, and that it's important to be proven that the spoliation and dispossession is proved, and this is very important with respect to the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights too, and there are relevant articles relating to criminal accusations and that their innocence must be proven. With respect to cases of major dispossession, for example, by dictators, it's not always possible to wait 15-20 years to prove or see whether they are guilty or not, or whether the money can be recovered or not. So I have some questions to the expert mechanism and whether they, and I note that it's important to benefit from the expertise of the Human Rights Council. There are many reports and proposals that have been made, for example, also from the Bretton Woods institutions. How can we use this expertise in the discussions underway and to draw up a text that's binding on illicit financial flows? So that's my question. Thank you.

Thank you very much for your question and for your observations. We continue to take questions then and comments, and we will consider your concerns as well. Thank you.

We give the floor to Matti Leunen, development expert.

I'm from University of Helsinki, associate professor there. Very interesting contributions from everyone. I have a question especially for Director General Diaye, but others may also wish to comment. I would like to ask about the possible challenges involved in establishing the criminal asset recovery office. Having researched illicit financial flows myself, I know that coordinating the work of police, anti-money laundering agencies, tax administration, and other relevant actors is not always straightforward. So did you encounter any particular challenges when building this office and in mainstreaming the human rights-based approach associated with it? And if so, how were they addressed? This could be interesting for other countries as well? And secondly, you mentioned that other states could improve their responses to asset seizure and recovery requests from African countries. Could you please elaborate on this point? Are there any best practices or challenges you could share? Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much for the questions. Colleagues have taken note. We quickly move to the Indian Council of South America. Please use the mic, the microphone, please.

Oh, sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to see you chairing up there. As you know, some of the background statuses of some of us indigenous peoples who are recognized as states or based on the report of Miguel Alfonso Martinez, we still have our international legal and political status. And in that regard, i thank Pakistan for recommending not only Alaska and Hawaii, but the Lakotas to go to the decolonization committee. And I know that we have discussed possibly doing something perhaps in Canada or elsewhere to discuss some of these relevant issues. And I say this because I know that international law does recognize that we do have a right under international law. And as I would have said yesterday when the representative from the ICJ spoke, he admitted in today's world, power is basically undermining international law and the principles that are accepted. It still doesn't, it means that we still have to assert that these international law and rights exist. Even the United States of America admits in public law 103-150 that Hawaii is still independent and they did not give up their status. And in the 1982 Statehood Commission report, they admit our status is still equal to the Philippines. And we did not give up our independent status, and we still have the right. Why is this necessary to continue to state and to request? And I will continue to request and send an official request as we have, but I understand that you didn't receive the request, perhaps maybe to former members who did not pass it on to you. So what am I saying? That President Thomas Jefferson, admits the Constitution of the USA was violated when they did the 1803 treaty with France for the Louisiana Purchase. He was saying taxation without representation and consent of the government is a cornerstone of their democracy. And Russia never taxed us. The United States had no right to tax Hawaii. They did not tax the Lakotas. Where, on the flip side, does the right of peoples and those of us who are asserted as states come into this equation? I believe that if we do a correct analysis and work with you, perhaps we could come up with recommendations in spite of the puppets that are sent here to undermine this, and that's what I would request. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We will now take a comment or questions from Rami Hoslani, youth expert on development.

Thank you, professor, excellencies. As a youth expert for the right to development, it is fundamental for me to highlight the impact of illicit financial flows on education and the development of individuals. The 1986 Declaration on the Right to Development, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, and the Sustainable Development Goals are mutually reinforcing the concrete and meaningful impact of the right of development against illicit financial flows. Linked to the principles of the 1986 Declaration of the Rights to Development, the second article of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights links the fight against IFFs to the obligation for states to mobilize the maximum of available resources. And so does Sustainable Development Goal 4's mission to ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all. Following these principles, civil society organizations and youth networks are engaging with young people to help them identify, understand, and resist these mechanisms of IFFs. And as a powerful example in this struggle against IFFs, the recent works of Tax Alliance shows, first of all, that curtailing tax expenditures and domestic tax evasions is a superior method to fund national budget. The alliance publishes data demonstrating that $29 billion lost annually by African nations to cooperate tax evasion is exactly the amount needed to fund education for all 18.8 million of those out of school girls. Adding to that, their work of sensitization on tax evasion through Pan-African summer schools on tax justice and trade misinvoicing, which represents 65% of the IFFs in Africa. Therefore, this lack of funding in public services leads to a forced youth exodus and a brain drain. So despite all the work done by the international community, including the NGOs, the lack of prospects and the endemic poverty caused by weak public services leaves young people more vulnerable to unemployment. as well as to informal or criminal economic networks, proving once again the need for a coercive right to development to shield our youth against structural economic violence. Therefore, I would like to offer a question for our reflection: how can our regulatory frameworks ensure that our global youth is no longer collateral damage to illicit economic activities in order to preserve a principle as fundamental as education in the right to development? Thank you.

Thank you very much for the questions and the comments. At this juncture, I will give the floor to the panelists who can try and respond and bring some responses to your concerns. Of course, time is not on our side because I will give everyone at most a minute just to say that we are grateful for the comments, questions, and recommendations that will definitely help enrich the study. All your comments will be considered, and if the space does not allow us to include everything in one study, because we have a number of words that we work with, the mechanism will probably organize a dialogue on subsequent issues or have a second study to address some of the questions raised. But for now, we take note of all your questions. Now, having said that, colleagues, panelists, each of you should take just a minute. to respond to one or two concerns. I know, Mr. Ndiaye, you will ask specific questions. I think you can have a minute for that. But before we get to that, let's start with Commissioner Quinana for a minute and closing remark.

Thank you so much. I think the one question that Touch me is the one of young people and the right to education, which for us in the country, in South Africa as a country, we are saying, sir, it is definitely a human right. So at the forefront of it, it is important to ensure that. The participants there are the young people themselves, in order for them to be able to amplify their lived experiences. And whilst we do that, we are recognizing that they are right holders, and therefore, we should be able to salvage the situation by ensuring that they participate meaningfully. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Commissioner. You have the floor, Mr.

Ndiaye, for the specific questions that were asked to you. You have one minute, please, to try and respond to the question.

Thank you, moderator. Thank you also for the question. With respect to the challenge on the implementation on the structure relating to our national office, of course, it's difficult, but I'd like to just recall quickly the context in which the structure was established in Senegal. It was against the backdrop of a Senegal that was developing alongside the FATF norms. We identified issues and recommendations were made, including establishing a body on this matter. So this was to follow up with relevant issues often This is the case. As I mentioned during my statement, it's important to note that combating illicit crime, money laundering, and so on, this starts, in my view, at a very specific point with the financial investigation, the identification of assets, and provisional or seizure and other measures that should be taken. with respect to the assets and those illicit financial flows nationally and internationally. So it's important here with respect to material goods as well, such as vehicles, boats, we have to proceed with looking at the value in public auctions. The issue we often face is that these goods need to be considered. Secondly, there are legal processes that take place, and the timeline means that the goods start to depreciate in that time. So the state and the community are affected here. decision on confiscation might take place, for example, too. If there was a boat that was sold for a fixed price, that price may be more substantial in 2026 than compared with if there was a five-year wait. So that aspect is important. Even if restitution might take place for the person in question, it's important to consider the sale and the depreciation and the timeline. So really, we were facing these challenges at the outset. Because of the depreciation or devaluation process, the state took these measures, and these are important nationally and internationally. Also, with respect to staff, combating these flows, well, we need expertise. We need provisions nationally and internationally. We need staff that can do the job, and that wasn't easy, rather. And so we need to look for staff that have expertise over several disciplines, that can cover the process more over a longer period. This is important because each aspect of the process has its own specificities and we need staff that can provide expertise at each point. So I note that the challenges exist, and we were lucky to be able to work on these matters, and knowing where to start helped us with our work. What I would like to also share is that the establishment of a body like ours is extremely important with respect to combating illicit financial flows. Africa today has been working, I note that the Convention Against Corruption exists and we can help to fill in the gaps in those provisions. We've been able to establish certain mechanisms bodies, and these will contribute to helping our work and moving forward with our set recovery. In Africa, this movement is of a cross-border nature. It might be between African countries or it might go beyond African countries. Thank you, moderator. I know we didn't have a lot of time. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Ndiaye. Given the time, I think you responded to the question very well.

Thank you.

I'll now move and give the floor to Professor Gerard Kamdem Kanga for his remarks, his closing remarks.

Thank you very much. I'd like to come back to a number of questions raised by the speakers in the room as to how Africa or what Africa will do to recover illicit financial flows that are abroad. There was also the issue of the types of dictatorships and how this situation must be dealt with. I found this issue to be quite a relevant one, because if a continent is paying about 90 billion one year, we're not talking about street thieves, talking about something that is structured, and those funds benefit the country that they're in. So that is why it's a real challenge to try to repatriate all of that money. But I think the fact that we have a panel which is dedicated to this cause, I think that's a very good start. Now, if I take the example of cases of dictatorships. I think some years ago, switzerland returned one part of the funds to Nigeria from the former Sani Abacha, nigerian dictator. So I do think that there are avenues that we can explore and work on. We do have precedents, so I think that if we base ourselves on those precedents, we can have quite a encouraging results. At the time I'm speaking to you, we have in France what we call the Malaki trial, and this relates to the heads of state of Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, and Congo, not the Democratic Republic of Congo, the Republic of Congo, because there are two Congos, of course. So the fact that we have such a situation against heads of state It means that I think that these are very strong signals. The process isn't yet perfect, but at least we're talking about it. And I think we need to be, and we can be, positive looking towards the future. The fact that we're here before you discussing these matters is a very positive sign. Of course, things are difficult, but I don't think things will be impossible. So I hope I've been able to provide you with some replies. Thank you very much indeed for your questions.

Thank you very much, Gerard. I will give the floor to Max. Over to you.

No, Prof, thank you very much. I want to end at a very low note, Prof. We are facing very, very powerful people, very powerful governments on the other side. The leaders of tax havens, on the other side, sophisticated accountants and auditors, sophisticated investment advisors, sophisticated lawyers, and all of these people are clubbing against the poor in the developing countries. And I think we must just appreciate the mammoth nature of the task that we are facing. And I think that's why then this idea of the international Um, tax cooperation is so critical. It's critical in the sense that the developed countries may appreciate the need for providing aid, um, to the underdeveloped countries, but that's a futile exercise if these countries can be allowed to develop. and their resources are not extracted the way they're being extracted, so that they can stand on their own and don't become a burden of anyone. So I'm just trying to say, everyone in this room, I think we need a very, very serious collective effort, whether it's advocacy or whether working in the environments where we find ourselves in. We are facing a very, very serious enemy. Thanks, Chair.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much for the input. Over to you, Dr. Kishan.

Okay, so as I mentioned, what I was working on is development conversion ratio. It's a quantitative measurement to measure the asset seizures. with development outcomes. So it's a long-term, short to long-term process, you know, starting with maybe one year, two years, and so on. But just to highlight, I want to, you know, reiterate that this is not a replacement to existing AML controls, sanctions, and supervision and law enforcement efforts, but rather a qualitative proposal, research proposal to measure, and so we can see whether our efforts are fruitful in terms of development within nations. And one more thing I like to echo across the panels is international cooperation is a must. We need to work together in order to combat these battles. Look forward to the policy brief that will come to your desk in the future. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Kishan. I would like to check with my fellow experts if any of you would like a minute or two say something or to add to the conversation? Thank you, Sherry.

I will be quick. I think I see a very clear connection between illicit financial flow and the responsibility of companies, especially to their responsibility towards human rights. So I think the company should also adopt a thinking of preventing.

Such risks when they do human rights due diligence, when they identify.

Risks related to human rights and to other communities, there should also be this thinking of fiduciary financial flows. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Shall we? Yes, Ramona.

Just quickly to say that I also appreciated the relationship that was drawn by some of the panelists between illicit financial flows and reparatory justice, and especially the impact of colonialism and extraction, historical extraction, on the realities today. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Ramona. Thank you for the observation. I want to say, perhaps, before giving the floor to the chair, to conclude, I would like, perhaps, to say, i see the fight against illicit financial flows as a way forward in dealing with global injustice, because poverty everywhere is fueled by illicit financial flows. In Africa, for instance, generally we hear about poverty. We can check the amount of money that Africa received through development assistance is way less than what is taken out of the continent through illicit financial flows. So instead of giving the continent development assistance, financial assistance to increase debt, just that the servicing of debt is actually a problem. Now, instead of giving such debt, let's deal with illicit financial flows from the continent, and Africa will take care of itself without asking for anybody or any country or any organization to come and fund its development. So illicit financial flows, if well addressed, will not only address the debt crisis It will also empower not only African state, but the developing world to take care of themselves, to control their self-determination without having to be a burden for the world. Because as I said earlier, Africa receive, we will say, a lot of money through development assistance, but debt servicing, the interest, actually hinders African rights to development. So for me, I see this panel and this study, for me, it's something that we need to address, we need to confront. Earlier, the CEO, Mr. Bokwana, said it's a political problem. Of course, we cannot ignore that. Even doing the study, we're using the human rights approach to say that the UN Charter through Article 55 and 56 calls on the international community to collaborate, to cooperate, to improve the standard of living everywhere in the world. How is it that these days nobody refers to that when illicit financial flows is growing and becoming I will say a break for the enjoyment of the right to development where it's needed most. We, in the African human rights system, we pride ourselves of developing the jurisprudence on the right to development with case laws like the case. like the Ogea case, this case clearly shows that the right to development is justiciable. However, Africa remains poor, and as I said earlier, the first step is to deal with illicit financial flows. And Africa will not do this alone. The international community that you represent, that we represent here, have a massive role to play. And that's why we are grateful for your presence and contributions. We, tomorrow, before I give the floor to the chair, tomorrow, we will have a side event on this issue at 1, between 1 to 2 o'clock. We will basically be listening more than doing the talking. We will listen to your recommendation, to your prescriptions, to your comment and observations, so that your input, the consultation we will have with you will also further enrich the study. With this, before I give the floor to you, Chair, I want to thank all our delegates, our excellencies that are here this afternoon. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Serge. This concludes agenda item 5A. I would like to express our deep appreciation once again to our distinguished guests. We will resume tomorrow at 10:00 AM with agenda item 5B, focused thematic discussion. Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned.