Procedures and Meaningful Participation at IGWG

So maybe we can start slowly, when everybody is going to have a seat. Excellencies, distinguished delegates, ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues, a very warm welcome to the German side event on meaningful participation of all relevant stakeholders in the IGWG process. The event is jointly sponsored by the German Federal Government and the German Institute for Human Rights and co-sponsored by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights and the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older People. We are delighted to bring together representatives of Member States, the United Nations, national human rights institutions, and civil society to discuss how meaningful participation can strengthen the rights and voices of older persons. Without further ado, it is my pleasure to invite Her Excellency Ambassador Antje Linderzer, Permanent Representative of Germany to the United Nations in Geneva, to deliver her opening remarks. Ambassador, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much, and thank you all for coming to this side event, and a warm welcome from my side as well. And I start, as always, with thanks. So my sincere thanks, of course, go to the Federal Ministry of Education, Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women, and Youth of Germany, to the German Institute for Human Rights, to the UN, to OHCHR, of course, and the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older Persons for making this event possible. I also thank our distinguished speakers, panelists, and moderators today. Our society, like those of many other countries, is aging rapidly. Older persons are the most heterogeneous of all age groups, with while many live autonomously and independently, others require assistance or depend on care. Ageism is a global challenge, affecting people across healthcare, employment, and in daily life. This week, we convene for the second session of the Intergovernmental Working Group on the Human Rights of Older Persons here in Geneva. We are here to continue our deliberations on a new legally binding instrument. And this process is a marathon, not a sprint. The 14 sessions of the open-ended working group laid a vital foundation. Now, with the IGWG, we have the experience to know where we must improve. Germany is fully committed to promoting the full enjoyment of all human rights by older persons without discrimination. This commitment also means promoting intergenerational fairness. As the ICWC continues its work, we look forward to the discussion this week. We welcome the broad and meaningful participation of civil society, representatives of older persons, including those with disabilities and those facing intersecting vulnerabilities, and voices from all regions. Their lived experience is not just welcome, it is essential. However, let's not forget human rights have no age limit. We must not lower our any existing standards. A specialized instrument must complement, not replace or dilute the existing acquit. The standards we have achieved must apply to older persons without exception. To ensure that our work is not based solely on the perspectives of states, Germany has integrated a diverse range of expertise by collaborating with the German Institute for Human Rights, BAXO, and other CSOs. We have established a national participation procedure that fosters a genuine exchange of views. This commitment to inclusivity is reflected in our approach today. Furthermore, meaningful participation must include all levels of government. Coming from a federal parliamentary republic myself, let me emphasize that many measures are implemented regionally in Germany or locally. So therefore, we have not to implement them on the ground. Who are the implementers on the ground must be fully informed about all negotiating positions. This is why the timely distribution of documents and drafts is more than a procedural request. It is a prerequisite for meaningful participation of all levels. In an era of scarce resources for human rights deliberations and high expectations, thorough preparation is essential, and it's a preparation for a marathon, I remind you. And this is essential to achieve tangible progress for older persons worldwide. And thank you again for all being here. I wish you an inspiring and productive exchange. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Ambassador, for your opening remarks. It is now my pleasure to invite Mr. Dimitar Shalev, Chief of the Equality and Non-Discrimination Section at the OHCHR, to share his perspective. Please, Dimitar, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Farhad, and thank you, Ambassador. Thank you to the Federal Government of Germany organizing this, to the German Institute for Human Rights, our former independent expert, Claudia. Thank you for the Global Alliance, and thank you to all of you for participating in this very important meeting. I mean, the key word here is meaningful participation. And I have to tell you that, i mean, it sounds easy, but it's not so easy. Usually, and we know this very well in the United Nations, we ask for the advice, we listen sometimes to civil society, to people with disabilities, to indigenous people and others. But how to translate this really into meaningful structural participation, it's not so easy. And I think this is a good moment now to start discussing this issue at the onset of this marathon, as you say, Ambassador. I hope it won't be a marathon, it will be maybe 5,000 meters. But let's say that it's really from the beginning, we should see how representatives of older persons, older persons, all stakeholders do not only give advice, they give intervention, they give speeches, but are really involved in the process and in the future work of the implementation of this legally binding instrument. The Human Rights Council Resolution 58/13 recognizes the importance of the meaningful participation, so that's a good beginning. And it says that this meaningful participation should be of all relevant stakeholders to achieve its objective. The effectiveness of any future instrument will depend also on the extent which it draws upon the experiences, expertise, perspective of all concerned. In the context of the Working Group's mandate, opportunities for engagement by older persons, their representative organizations, civil society, national human rights institutions, and all other relevant stakeholders can enrich deliberation and support informed decision-making by Member States. Important, as I said, that this meaningful participation is not confined to interventions delivered in conference rooms during formal sessions. Stakeholders can contribute to and help shape discussions in many ways, including through written submissions. Research and analysis, and I have to tell you that we're receiving quite a lot of research by organizations for the persons and professional associations. Engagement through representative organizations, networks, exchanges with member states, and participation in national, regional, and international dialogues. And we'll have, in the coming months and year, several of these regional consultations with relevant stakeholders. Making full use of these various opportunities can help ensure that the experiences, perspectives, and expertise of all the persons and all those working on their behalf are reflected throughout the process and feed into the future instrument. I am confident that today's discussion will contribute to this objective and help identify concrete and practical ways to strengthen this multi-stakeholder participation throughout the working group's work. I thank you.

Thank you very much, Dimitar, for your valuable remarks. Let me now turn to the perspective of the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older People. It is my pleasure to invite Paulette Metin, member of the Steering Group of GAROP, to share her insights. Paulette, the floor is yours.

Thank you for the floor given. I'm Paulette Metin, a member of the Steering Group of the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older People, GAROP, and I'm talking on its behalf. GEROP is a strong global network of more than 400 members, established in 2011 to strengthen the right and voice of older people worldwide. We are united in our advocacy for a new UN convention. Older persons are at the center of the entire drafting process of this legally binding instrument of their right. Our meaningful participation in the Geneva-based Intergovernmental Working Group tasked with drafting that instrument is essential. All other people in the world positively influence and shape directly the drafting of the new instrument by giving real life on the ground and direct insight about ageism, abuse, health, isolation, and so on. And marginalized groups' voice are heard, such as older women, disabled older people, rural, and those without income. I'm another woman myself, living in rural areas. My everyday life lacks a foundation of social pension because coming from the informal sector, no closed hospital, no health insurance. In the part of Cameroon where I live, we are undergoing climate change effect on our agriculture. I also experience ageism and discrimination. Attending the intergovernmental meeting in Geneva in person has been crucial. Because we have a seat at that table for a matter concerning us. Nothing about us without us, then. Equal voices, equal rights. Here we deliver our own written or oral statement on the framework, architecture, core principle, and other topics, share our life experience and recommendation in plenary discussion, general debate, and panels. We are also attending virtually for some reason, including financial barriers we face, especially from low and middle income countries. Some other people cannot travel such long journeys, even if they can afford it financially. We can watch on the live stream and send video statement. This is very encouraging, but live virtual participation is also needed. Civil society, other people, and their representative organization. Meaningful participation is facilitated and driven by GAROP. GAROP has been advocating for the working group to prioritize older people's voice by including them within their official delegation and to provide dedicated speaking time to older advocates during meetings. GAROP is supporting the voices of older people in the process by firstly facilitating grassroots consultation around the world, compile the live realities into our joint consensus position papers, Secondly, supporting logistical coordination and capacity building, such as registration guidance, convening preparation meetings, and virtual briefing with the NGO Committee on Age in Geneva, and developing training package. Thirdly, through global public mobilization with our Age With Us campaign and its global rallies, national advocacy toolkit. Finally, By exploring partnership opportunities to fund the attendance of all the people to support voices from underrepresented regions and groups in the process. To end, I want to underscore what is already said, that other people's meaningful participation can be ensured by facilitating our diverse accreditation, centering our voices, coordination, hybrid participation, transparency, and our engagement on draft working document, submission, and input received. We look forward to collaborating with you all as the drafting process moves forward. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Paulette, for your valuable input. Let me now turn to Mr. Peter Litschker, co-chair of the working group on the human rights of older persons of the European Network of National Human Rights Institutions. Peter, please, over to you.

Thank you very much, and thank you very much for organizing this important event. I'm delivering this statement on behalf of ENHR, the European Network of National Human Rights Institutions. representing 51 NHRIs across Europe. In September, ENRI held a meeting of its working group on the human rights of older persons in Berlin. The outcome of this meeting will be a guidance paper aimed at supporting European NHRIs in actively contributing to the drafting of the new instrument and advocating for the human rights of older persons at both European and national levels. The paper will be published at the end of this year, and will include examples of best practices from European NHRIs. NHRIs played a crucial role during the sessions of the UN Open-ended Working Group on Ageing in New York, and they continue to make significant contributions since the establishment of the Intergovernmental Working Group on the Human Rights of Older Persons in Geneva. In advance of and during the organizers meeting in February and the first session in July, individual NHRIs, ENRI, and the Global Alliance of National Human Rights Institutions, GANRI, submitted written contributions and delivered oral statements, and they continue to contribute during this second session. We strongly encourage that NHRIs and older persons are also meaningfully represented in panels and other discussions in future sessions. The meaningful, effective, full, and equal participation of NTRs, civil society, as well as older persons or their diversity, and their representing organizations, including older women, older persons with disabilities, older AGDPQI persons, older persons living in rural area, older persons living in poverty, older migrants and refugees, older persons deprived of their liberty, and older internally displaced persons must be guaranteed both during the sessions and the activities during the intersessional sessions. Especially the voices of older persons living in vulnerable situations or facing intersectional and multiple forms of discrimination, including those from marginalized groups, must be heard, reflected, and meaningfully considered throughout every stage of the drafting process. Meaningful participation must go beyond consultation. It requires accessible opportunities to contribute. adequate time and information to engage and a genuine possibility for the views and experiences of older persons to shape the instrument being developed. European NHRIs stand ready to support this process and to contribute their expertise and experience to ensure that the future instrument reflects the realities and diverse experiences of older persons. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Peter, for your valuable input. Now we have to make a little change of scenes. Please, I ask the panelists to come and take the floor. Bring also, please, along your name tags. And thank you very much again for all your contributions and inputs. Have a good day. Thank you, Dinita. So we are now exchanging. The panelists are coming. Thank you, Dinita. See you later. Thank you, Paulette. Thank you, Peter.

So, as you already heard, this is a marathon, so we are now in the next training session. So I'm quite happy to have this distinguished panel with me here today. I think we just really start from scratch right now, so I'm very happy that everybody made the time and also that everybody is joining us here. The room is full. This is lovely to see you all here, and I'm really looking forward to collaborating with you further. Right now, I have the pleasure also to ask a couple of meaningful questions on meaningful participation. So let me start with Alexandre da Silva, State Secretary on the Rights of Older Persons in the Human Rights Department. From the scratch, what does meaningful participation mean from your perspective as a member state or civil society as a member state for this? convening the EGWG negotiation.

Let me first commend Germany for organizing this event and for inviting me to join this timely discussion on the meaningful participation of the older person civil society in international efforts towards a new legal binding instrument to protect the human rights of the older person. The question is, what is meaningful participation? Excellence Brazil thanks to the Government Institute for Human Rights for committing this event and welcomes the opportunity to contribute this important exchange, meaningful participation. Meaningful participation means ensuring that older persons are not merely consulted, but generally heard and actively involved in shaping the decisions that affect their lives. It requires qualified listening, creating accessible, inclusive spaces where older persons can express their views, share their life experience, identify their needs, and propose solutions. Their contribution must be taken seriously and meaningfully reflected in policies, programs, and decisions. Participation should not be a formality, but a process that can influence outcomes. This also means recognizing the diversity of older persons. Poverty, racism, gender inequality, disability, and other forms of discrimination can create barriers to participation. Governments must therefore ensure that all older persons, including those in vulnerable situations, have equal opportunities to contribute. Meaningful participation is particularly important in development of the international human rights standards. In the context of the Intergovernmental Working Group, older persons and their representative organizations should have effective opportunities to contribute to discussions and negotiations on the future legal binding instrument. Their experience are essential to identify protecting gaps and ensure that the instrument responds to real needs. Participation extends beyond the institutional consultations. Brazil 2026 election offer important example of older person to exercise their citizenship in participation, achieving democratic life. Although voting optional in citizens age 70 and over, this election recorded the lowest abstention rate among older voters in the country, the democracy story, demonstrate their continuing engagement in shaping their society. Ultimately, meaningful participation requires both the opportunity to speak and assurance that one voice matters. It's essential to protect autonomy, combat ageism, and ensure that older persons are recognized as rights holders with the same dignity and capacity to influence public lives as everyone else. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. And now we give the floor to our Excellency Eric Gerardo Tamoya. We are looking forward to hear your perspective from the Philippines. What does meaningful participation mean?

Thank you, Claudia. And at the onset, I would also like to thank Germany, the German Institute for Human Rights, the OHCHR, and the Global Alliance for the Rights of Older Persons for convening this timely discussion. For the Philippines, the meaningful participation of older persons is integral to, and not ancillary to, this process. It underpins the legitimacy and ownership of the future instrument, which should be elaborated with older persons, not only for them. Resolution 58/13 invites national human rights institutions and civil society, especially older persons and their representative organizations, to contribute actively and constructively, and calls upon the working group to promote the meaningful participation of older persons and their representative organizations from all regional groups in an inclusive manner. As a member of the core group, we wish to highlight five elements. First is accessibility. We welcome the webcasting of the sessions and look forward to the Chair's proposal on the hybrid format envisaged in resolution 58/13. We also encourage easy to read and accessible documentation, and where required, reasonable accommodation to enable older persons, including older persons with disabilities, to participate on an equal basis with others. Second is timeliness. Draft texts and programs of work should be circulated sufficiently in advance to allow all stakeholders, including through national consultations, to provide informed and timely inputs. Third, participation at all stages. While fully respecting the intergovernmental nature, civil society, organizations of older persons, and national human rights institutions should be enabled to contribute in a substantive manner throughout the elaboration process. Fourth is transparency. Participation is meaningful when stakeholders can see how their contributions have been taken into account. And finally, the fifth engagement, which is in Geneva, and national consultations, are mutually reinforcing. And I'll be happy to discuss this further in the next round as well. So that is coming from us. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Eric, also for putting everything in your two minutes. So that's highly appreciated. Let's go to Mr. Blaz Slamek from the Council of, he's a counselor for human rights from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Slovenia, long-standing support member here in the room.

Thank you.

Thank you, Claudia, and hello to everyone. Let me first also thank Germany, OHCHR, and others for convening this important meeting today. Slovenia considers meaningful participation as both a principle that is guiding our negotiation process and also a standard against which the outcome will be measured. The legitimacy and effectiveness of the legally binding instrument will depend not only on the text we adopt, its ambitions and quality, but also whether The whole negotiation process genuinely reflected voices of all stakeholders. For states like Slovenia, participation gives us the opportunity to actively shape negotiations, contribute ideas, share positions, and raise concerns. But it all requires a genuine dialogue between states. This has to go beyond delivering statements and just simply being present in the room. We strongly believe that all proposals must be considered seriously and addressed in good faith. Dialogue, consultations, and consensus building are greatly important for the inclusive and transparent negotiation process. We have to be open to be, we have to be ready to listen to each other and hear each other. on the different national experiences and positions, legal systems, et cetera. Slovenia also has always been strongly supporting full and meaningful participation of civil society and older persons in this and in other similar negotiation processes. The LBI we are working on should recognize older persons as rights holders. empower them to make decisions about their own lives, and ensure that they can participate fully, equally, and effectively in the society. This is precisely why the voices and experiences of older persons must be heard and considered. The life experiences of older persons can directly feed into the negotiation process. And Slovenia also actively facilitates the meaningful participation of civil society also in this session. Our financial contribution, for instance, will enable interested civil society organizations and older persons themselves to actively follow the webcast online. And I hope that this small gesture will have the great significance, particularly to those who couldn't join us today.

Thank you so much. Then we hear from the next core group member, Chano Morena, Deputy Permanent Representative of the Republic of Gambia. How do you see meaningful participation from your end? What do we need to take into consideration?

Thank you very much, Claudia. From the perspective of The Gambia, Three questions should guide us in achieving the call for meaningful participation as envisaged in resolution 58/13. One is who needs to participate? Two, what would enable them to do so? And three, how will their contributions inform our work? On the first question, it goes without saying that older persons are not a homogeneous group. Their experiences, needs, and priorities differ across communities and within regions. Therefore, it is important that we hear directly from them and their perspectives, as each of them bring distinct lived realities. Therefore, we need older persons in all regions to be on the table. While this is an intergovernmental process, I mean, the meaningful participation of all relevant stakeholders is also critical. to ensure that the future instrument would be informed by the lived realities of all older persons. In many of our countries, including The Gambia, civil society organizations and the national human rights institutions have been leading the call for the recognition and protection of older persons. Therefore, in our view, we should not really discount their participation in this process, notwithstanding recognition that this is an intergovernmental working group. We thank the Global Alliance for making possible the participation of many of the older persons in our regions. On the second aspect, participation requires resources. I mean, therefore, in view of the reduced earning capacity of many older persons in many parts of the world, especially in developing and least developed countries, we should encourage voluntary contribution to support travel, interpretation, and accessibility concerns. When one looks around the table in the first two sessions of the IGWG, one can see clearly that diversity of participation leaves much to be desired. And I think this is something that needs to change in order to be able to really have meaningful participation as envisaged. And lastly, of course, there should be a mechanism to ensure that national and regional consultations feed into the working group's discussions, and older persons, in their diversity, are given the to contribute their lived experiences to shape our work and to receive feedback on how their views have been considered. Thank you.

Thank you so much. And without further ado, I'm also quite happy to have Elke Schilling with us from the head of SilbaNetz. Elke, from your perspective, what needs to be done to have meaningful participation?

Thank you so much, Claudia, for this opportunity to share our basic insights about older people in Germany, especially. The statistics in Germany describe the living conditions of older people between 40 and 90 years old. This way, politics can act appropriately for them. Little is asked and known about those over 90. For eight years, we at Silbernnetz have been the ear and voice of the invisible elderly in Germany. In those years, we received well over one million calls from people aged 50 to 110 from all over Germany. For a few weeks now, there has also been scientific proof. People who call our hotline for the first time are more emotionally and socially lonely than about 95% of their peers. Our silver phone reaches the hard to reach, highly stressed older people and can already provide noticeable relief with just one single conversation. Even short conversations of about 20 minutes can significantly reduce loneliness and provide It can already provide noticeable relief with one single conversation. Even short conversations of about 20 minutes can significantly reduce loneliness and provide the first important impulses on the way out of it. So, what does meaningful participation mean from our perspective as a civil society representative? There need to be easily accessible and stable services. Though that older people, no matter how old, and who, for whatever reason, have fallen out of the social network, can participate in social life. Not forgotten, not denied, not ignored. Getting the support and information they need and want, they can contribute as a visible and accepted part of this society using their special abilities, skills, experiences, and often very special survival strategies. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Elke. And without further ado, we also go to the second round of questions. We already heard the full diversity of all the people needs to be taken into account. They need support in different endeavors. There is also a scarce of resources, and also the whole process needs some valuable support in this regard. Chair, now coming back to Gambia. Gambia has been very active advocate for the rights of all the people, also in one other UN fora like the last World Urban Forum, which was very impressive for me. What are your ideas? How can we bring more voices from all the persons of Africa to the table and also manage to spread the world?

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Claudia, once again. Like I indicated in my previous intervention, I think it is very important that our working methods and, of course, the procedures that we adopt ensure that older persons, in their full diversity from around the world, participate in this process. And of course, one of the most important impediments to the full participation of older persons from most of the developing world is resource constraints. So therefore, resourcing is primary, is a sin qua non for the effective participation of older persons in our regions. And I think that is something that needs very good attention from the IGWG. Secondly, the older persons in our regions need to be more organized, and this organization needs to be coordinated as well. Of course, the Global Alliance can play a very, very important role in this regard. There are a lot of older persons organizations in the developing world which are not speaking to each other. and we shall not coordinate in their efforts. And I think, I mean, just like we have seen, I mean, the European experience, I mean, that has been shared here, I mean, we need a particular networking, I mean, the organization that would be able to bring together, I mean, older persons organizations to really coordinate, I mean, their participation in this process. I think with resourcing and better coordination, we'll be able to see, I mean, a better representation of older persons from the developing world, especially Africa, in this process.

Thank you so much for your insights. And Blaž, from the very beginning of the negotiations, Slovenia has advocated for older persons to play a role and have a seat at the negotiation table. How does Slovenia keep its civil society informed about the process? Are there very specific formats you're taking into account to spread the word? And can you also name any other specific actions that Slovenia will take right now? You already had a very good intercessional conference many years ago, but what is now on your agenda? Thank you so much for sharing.

Thank you, Claudia. And as you mentioned before, Slovenia has been for decades a strong supporter of the rights of the older persons and the need for the new legally binding document to be adopted, negotiated and adopted on this. We have been strongly involved in the process in New York with the open-ended working group, and also here in Geneva, and this is also why we have joined the core group for this intergovernmental negotiation process. Like I mentioned, the topic has remained one of our most visible human rights priorities in our foreign policy, and will continue as such also with our current government. Throughout the years, we at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs have been conductive in open dialogue and cooperation with the civil society, specifically on human rights and our priorities in the international fora. And this includes the developments regarding the rights of older persons. Specifically, this year, I think it was April, we had a whole thematic session of the Interministerial Working Group on Human Rights dedicated to the rights of older persons and the negotiation process. And civil society representatives are permanent members of that commission and have actively participated in the discussions. As the process evolves, we will, of course, continue with this engagement and engaging the Slovenians organizations and all the persons themselves to actively contribute to the next stages. In addition, the ministry has been a strong supporter of the Festival for the Third Age. This is an event held annually in Ljubljana. And at this year's 25th edition, a lot of events, talks, panel discussions were organized, and several of them were also touching on the international level and what is happening here in Geneva. So we will continue including our civil society actively involved in future as well. Thank you.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience from Slovenia. The Philippines, Eric, have always been core member from the beginning, and you also have a long-standing commitment to strengthen the human rights of older adults. In addition, you seem also to maintain a very active dialogue with your National Human Rights Commission and organizations representing older adults in the Philippines. Can you also share some ideas with us on how we can inform older adults and on the ongoing process?

Thank you.

Thank you, Claudia. I would like to begin by referencing Ambassador Antti earlier when she mentioned that the heterogenous nature of older persons. And we contextualize our approach in the same manner by precisely that, older persons are not a homogenous group. In the Philippines, they include older women, indigenous older persons, older persons with disabilities, those living in rural and geographically isolated areas, and other migrant workers and their families. Reaching them means working through the institutions closest to them. So allow me to highlight three levels. At the national level, following the adoption of Resolution 58/13, the Commission of Human Rights of the Philippines, which is our A-status National Human Rights Institution, and the National Commission of Senior Citizens, convened a two-day national consultation on 29 and 30 April 2026. It brought together organizations of older persons, civil society, and the government agencies directly responsible for senior citizens. Participants identified the rights the instruments should reflect, including those of older Filipino migrant workers, and the need to define older persons aging and intergenerational solidarity. This whole of government approach and whole of society approach informs our engagement here in Geneva. Now, at the regional level, the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration recognizes the rights of the elderly, and the ASEAN Intergovernmental Commission on Human Rights is mandated to promote its full implementation and to engage in dialogue with ASEAN bodies and civil society. Through its regular dialogues with the ASEAN Senior Officials Meeting on Social Welfare and Development, and the Southeast Asian National Human Rights Institutions Forum, IHR, as we call it, would serve as a platform to inform ASEAN member states and stakeholders of the work of the IGWG. Now for the wider Asia-Pacific region, The 2023 Manila Call to Action, which was adopted by Asia-Pacific national human rights institutions at a workshop hosted by our Commission, called on the Asia-Pacific Forum to support their advocacy for an LBI on human rights of older persons. With the IGWG now underway, the Forum would and could help them inform older persons and convey their views to this process. Thank you very much, Khalid.

Thank you so much, also to bringing very direct examples where you engage with civil society and also the Human Rights Commission of the Philippines. Dear Elke, from your civil society perspective, what kind of support is necessary to be really meaningfully engaged? And what kind of ideas can you share with us that we get more civil society organizations into the loop? Thank you.

Thank you, Claudia. I would like to limit myself to what we see as the two most important aspects. First, it's prevention. Ageism is deeply ingrained in society and often leads older people to impose self-restrictions. For example, "I don't want to be a burden to anyone." This means not taking advantage of what every social being is entitled to, the help of others or social structures when it's needed. On the other hand, not asking for possible help from others deprives those of the chance to be helpful. But also being excluded somewhere because of age robs you of the freedom to participate, even though you want to and can. We learned in our work, older people are the most diverse group of all in our population. They have the right to be visible and to be listened to and to take part in life in our society in ways that enriches all of us. They have all the rights to participation and involvement, no matter how many years they have lived. Second, it is information. An annual report on digitalization in Germany points out two groups of people, the refusers and the sit it outers, who don't want to use the opportunities that digitalization offers. This definition leaves out those who, for whatever reasons, don't have access to digitalization. This is why public services, health care, and other essential services for older people are increasingly only available digitally. If you are not informed about how, you can't take part. Take care of yourself or find out what help and support are available. So it urgently needs in every way barrier-free access to all information necessary for participation, involvement, self-care, and care.

Thank you.

Thank you so much also for sharing the obstacles and barriers, why the inclusion does not always seem very accessible. Alexandre.

I know you're also very active on the national level.

Can you also share with us good examples for participation of older people in Brazil and some activities?

Thanks, Claudia. Yes, Brazil's experience with participatory policy marking offers an important example, particularly through the National Conference of the Rights of the Older Persons. In 2025, Brazil had the 6th National Conference on the Rights of the Older Persons, following preparatory meetings at municipal and state levels. This process brought together perspective for different parts of the country and provides space for dialogue on the challenges, priority, and expectations of older persons. The importance of this experience lies not only in the conference itself, but in the participatory process that supports it. By creating opportunities for people to discuss their realities, formulate proposals, and contribute to public policy priority, this conference helps strengthen the connection between government action and the life experience of the older persons. For Brazil, this reflects an important principle. Policies concerning older persons should not be designed exclusively for them, but developed with their active participation. Their knowledge and experience are essential to addressing issues such as income security, access to health care, long-term care, age discrimination, and social inclusion. Older persons are not merely beneficiaries of public policies; they are active citizens who contribute to shaping the future of their communities and country. These experiences illustrate that participation must be continuous and take different forms, from local dialogue and national conference to electoral engagement. Brazil believes that strengthening this mechanism is essential to ensuring that older persons' voices are heard, their rights are respected, and their contributions are recognized. This principle should also guide our discussions at international level, including the developing of legal binding instruments on the human rights of the older person. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much. And also showed that we, on the one hand, need political will to include all the people in diverse settings, and that we also need to understand what are the barriers to include all the people in their full diversity, and that there are different aspects we already heard here on the table, and one is also resources, which are really needed to get more older people from different perspectives, but also from different parts of the world to the table here, who have their voices included. I thank every panelist, and I think we have now a little bit of time for discussion and questions, correct.

Yes, Claudia, thank you. Let me also make a brief summary from my side. We believe we can now recall that we have four countries and members of the core group, and you are all here on the panel, and also Elke from civil society. And it's showing in a way that we heard important perspectives from all of you, and we are very happy that you as an incoming chair, but also the Argentinian chair, are doing a very valuable work for the whole thing. And we are very happy now to open the floor and take your questions, and maybe we can take, we are good in time, three or four questions. So who would like to speak? So I see a hand from India. Who else would like to speak? Then Baxo. So then we start with India, and I see another hand over there, Alexander, I can't see who it is. Lithuania. Okay, we start with India, please.

India, you have the floor. Please be brief, and maybe you can also say to who the question is dedicated.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much. We have a remark. We don't have a question particularly. We appreciate the German Federal Government, the Federal Ministry of Education, Family Affairs, Senior Citizens, Women and Youth, and the German Institution of Human Rights for convening this important discussion. For India, meaningful participation is not of procedural formality. It is essential to a rights-based process. Older persons must be recognized not only as beneficiaries of the proposed instrument, but also as the rights holders and partners in its elaboration, implementation, and monitoring. We believe that the protecting and safeguarding of the human rights of older persons is a development imperative, and the normative foundations of rights must stand on the structured foundations of development as a paradigm. This is essential to ensure the meaningful implementation of the future element. This is integral understanding of ours. The human rights of older persons cannot exist without safeguarding the human rights of care workers. We would request the panelists to also take into consideration, we have from our permanent mission shared the new draft for the international legally binding agreement on instrument on the human rights of older persons. And to all the conveners, because you formulate also consist of the IGWG on the rights of older This is our contribution to the subject, and we would also look forward to working with Germany and all the delegations to ensure that the meaningful participation becomes a continuing feature of the international framework. Thank you.

Thank you very much, India. So who would like to answer from the panel?

I think we take more questions.

We'll make now for first answer round. Who would like to answer from you? Okay, so we take another question from Baxel, please.

Thank you so much. And to the German Institute for the side event and also at national level, really, for all the support around this process, which has been very valuable for us as representative organization of older persons. You already shared a couple of experiences from the past, but I would like to have a look forward and also hear from you about concrete examples and ideas around national consultations and perhaps also regional consultations. Question to all of the panelists, but because besides the German context, I also know the Brazilian context a little bit, also a question to Alexandre, how the Conselho the councils, how you're planning to involve them in the process? Thank you.

Thank you, Ina. In Brazil, we have the councils that you said. And it's an opportunity to try the experience when the governor, maybe the municipality or state or the country, try to intend how the policy works. And we can to introduce, for example, like the chair of The Gambia told, the possibility to bring a resource for the civil society participate. So in Brazil, we have almost 11, six or eight meetings per year, and our secretary pay for them. And now we try to innovate when we realize the meetings outside of Brazil, the capital of Brazil. We try to get in the north and the south. So in this moment, we tried not only the national councils, by governor and civil society, but together we bring and discuss with the civil society, the municipalities, the movement societies. And the conference is very important because the theme of our last conference was the multicultural aging process. We talk about this. So some groups that I told in my speech was there. put your opinions, put your needs in the policy makers, and now, maybe we don't have the ratification of the intergovernmental convention of the international, inter-American, sorry, convention. We have the programs that could bring opportunities and actions for the groups that we look for the Article 5, the Inter-American Convention. So our our normative acts brings not only the participation of civil society, but bring the response for several problems that we have.

Thank you. We have two more panelists who want to answer.

Thank you very much. When it comes to the rights of older persons in Africa and in Gambia specifically, we have the African Protocol on the Rights of Older Persons, which is supplementary to the African Charter on Human and People's Rights. And of course, this is, I mean, dating in 2016, and not a lot of countries have acceded to this protocol. The Gambia only acceded in 2024, so basically just over two years ago in June. And so, I mean, like I indicated in my opening, a lot of the initiatives have been really, you know, led from the civil society organization side rather than from the government. So, I mean, a lot of civil society initiatives such as the Smile with, I mean, Aging with Smile initiative, and of course, the National Human Rights Commission also leading, I mean, the sensitization and advocacy, I mean, for the respect of the rights of older persons. We have the government Ministry of Social Welfare, which is responsible for, I mean, for older persons, I mean, through the social protection program, providing, you know, much needed financial assistance and monthly subventions for, I mean, older persons. But in terms of real advocacy, I think it's more of a bottom up, I mean, in the case of The Gambia, rather than, you know, top bottom. I mean, so it's more the older persons themselves, as well as civil society in general, which has been leading the charge. And I think that has been quite effective because I mean, they know best what is really good for them. And I think that is a good way forward and basically getting themselves to be heard directly rather than the other way around. Thank you.

Thank you. As I indicated in my opening speech, we have started the negotiation consultations nationally. And we will continue, so also in the next stages, for instance, before the written contribution is sent out, the national written contribution will, of course, consult with all the relevant stakeholders, including civil society. And as for regional consultations, we are reflecting of organizing regional consultation for the Eastern European group. This is still in the reflection stages. No decision has been made or no date has been set. But also, what I wanted to say, also regionally, we would like to keep our driving seat, or at least somewhere near the driving seat, so that we can drive the process further.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you, Claudia, and thank you for the question. I just wish to supplement. what I shared earlier about our national, regional, and wider regional approaches. And with the underpinning principle that the national consultations could build upon the existing mechanisms for engaging older persons. Now, the Philippines being an archipelagic country, and the diversity of our communities, this requires a bit of mapping exercises. that would ensure that perspectives are not confined to those organizations or stakeholders based at the capital. So we want to be as inclusive as possible. And importantly, these consultations should not, of course, be one-off exercises. Their outcomes should feed into the successive stages of drafting with opportunities for stakeholders to review and comment as the text evolves. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Being the listeners to the invisible older persons in Germany, we try to be present here in this process in Geneva. And also, we try to share what we learn here and the experience here within our networks, because we are all over Germany. We have volunteers also connected in their regions. And so we try to share our knowledge here and also to get their experiences and to bring it into this process. Thank you.

Thank you, Elke. So we have three last questions from Ken Bluestone, from Kathrin Petters, and from Anna Javira. So please go.

Can we go ahead with the first? Thank you so much to the organizers. This is such an important event, and the focus of the discussion, of course, is essential. I am Ken Bluestone. I'm with Age International. We're a member of GAROP based in the UK, but we're also a member of the HelpAge Global Network. And I just want to offer two very concrete, tangible ways of ensuring meaningful participation and a question to our Brazilian colleagues in terms of the future work. So, very practically, we all know that the meaningful participation of civil society requires transparency, it requires a structured and open engagement and timeliness to allow for the full participation and especially if we're talking about national consultation, it requires that the ability for us to mobilize, to bring the voices of older people into the process. A very practical and meaningful way of achieving that, actually, for the delegations here in Geneva, is to incorporate and include older persons into your delegations. So there's a direct input of their voices and experience into the actual drafting process. And with that in mind, the question is, regarding the process going forward, are there any insights as to how the participation of civil society, and particularly representatives of older people, are going to be structured into the actual drafting of the treaty? Because we don't have that detail yet. Thank you.

Catherine, can you also give your question, please, and Anna, and then we all sum up, and then we should also close the panel because time is running and you all want to eat as well. So please, Catherine and Anna, and please introduce yourselves.

I'm audible, right? Yeah. I'm Catherine Pettis, International Association for Hospice and Palliative Care. And I was wondering about meaningful participation of the media, because are there any plans for some kind of a press or media strategy, whether both traditional media as well as new media, or we're just left to our own devices? I mean, we can share with our networks, clearly, but just as Ms. Schilling said, this ageism is internalized personally, it's internalized in society, it's also internalized in the media. And I think it would be amazing if we could somehow have a media campaign for the next year or so.

So last but not least, Anna, please.

I'm representing Polish National Human Rights Institution, and I would like to build on Ines from Baxer question and also on the panelists' remarks on national consultations and its importance. And I would like to suggest and request, actually, if on the way forward you could consider updating the timeline and incorporate the importance of national consultations within the timeline, because not every delegation is present in the room, and this document is circulated among delegations, and then it would bring to attention to other delegations also that it's a message to be conveyed to the capital cities and to request those national consultations and put it directly when it should happen to inform further stages during this intersessional period. I would really be grateful for that. Thank you.

So then I would like to ask Alexandre to answer the first question, and then open to all other panelists who would like to address the other two questions. So please.

The question is not easy. So it's not easy because we have different ways of governments, of regions, of the countries. We have the different size of the countries. And important to know how the UN construct the civil participation, civil society participation in the possible that we have in Brazil and the other colleagues to construct. But I can't I don't know. It's a good question, good response. But in Brazil, when we needed to communicate with the other person or the persons involved in the gerontology area, the aging process, the older person's issues. We start with the good communication. We start the different ways to communication for several groups. In our conference, for example, Plus, the several communications, we introduced the simple language. Consider that the Brazilian, we have a low education for the most part of the older persons, almost four years of scholarships. So we introduced this simple language, the ways to transform. For example, the regiment about the conference, how the simple language was important. We get more engagement for the persons. The institution that create with us the conference told us there was the most participation, the average conference that they realized in the last years. And when coming in Geneva, for example, I communicate, I try to colleagues at the conference in our and I bring our opportunity to stay here and communicate to other colleagues, the,, the civil society, and the governments, what idea, what the importance to try to construct an international convention. And in Brazil, for example, the next year, we started the new region of the President Lula. We started with a system, a platform called Brazil Participation, for example. Each person in Brazil, each person who lives in Brazil, not in Brazilian, is necessary to stay in Brazil. We can contribute for the policies and the resources. And we try to construct the whole panel was the most important issues that minister could to constructive actions or enhance the policies. to respond more your question. We try to look for the possibilities to try example like this with the other countries and the only possibility is to create together.

Thank you, Alexandre. Who would like to take the latter two questions? Please brief answers.

Well, it is a challenging question indeed. But from the perspective of the Philippines, we are quite flexible. We will support any call, I mean, generally call for incorporating national and regional consultations into an indicative timeline. We are working with the national institutions that we have and the regional and wider regional mechanisms that we have from our end. And we are also amenable to facilitating and ensuring that whatever is discussed here in Geneva migrates into the national discourse back home. And specific questions, draft elements circulated in advance. with an indicative consultative window. These are, of course, very much possibilities. And what we would be interested is providing that practical link between consultations and the actual drafting processes, if that's the idea behind the questions, and while also allowing for flexibility for different national circumstances and capacities. Thank you.

Thank you, Eric. So before closing this German side event, I would like to express my sincere thanks to everyone who contributed to making this event a success. And of course, a special thank to all of you here in the audience. Your presence and engagement today have demonstrated once again that meaningful participation for all stakeholders is at the very heart of the IDWG. Let us carry this spirit on, and before you return to the negotiations, please help yourselves with some sandwiches and coffee outside. Thank you.