UN Geneva Press Briefing: WHO, IOM, UNHCR, WMO

Okay, let's start this press briefing of the Information Service of the UN here in Geneva. Today is Tuesday, 28th of July. Thank you very much for accommodating our request of our, our change of time. I'd like to start immediately with our colleagues from WHO, and as you have been told, at 11:15, the IOM Director-General, Amy Pope, will come to the press room to brief you on victims of trafficking. So let's start with WHO. Christian, good morning. You have brought us Dr. Olufunmilayo Lesi to talk about hepatitis because, as everybody knows, today is World Hepatitis Day. So I'll give you the floor for your introductory remarks unless Christian, want to start maybe? I don't know.

Indeed, let me say a few words. Thank you very much, Alessandra, uh, and hello to everyone. So good morning, everyone. Um, today is indeed World Hepatitis Day, and as colleagues gather in Rio de Janeiro for the global World Hepatitis Day commemoration, we are pleased to brief you here today in Geneva on the latest global situation and WHO's priorities for accelerating progress towards hepatitis elimination. You have seen maybe the first remarks yesterday already in the evening with the press release and accompanying links, so they're pretty useful. This year's World Hepatitis Day theme is Hepatitis: Let's Break It Down. It's a call to break down the barriers that continue to prevent millions of people from accessing prevention, testing, and treatment. Important, in just a few hours, and I think in about 1 or 2 hours now, in Rio, the the government of Brazil, World Health Organization, and others will convene the high-level event World Hepatitis Day 2026: Breaking Down Barriers to Accelerate Hepatitis Elimination.

It's—

this is in the sidelines of the 26th International AIDS Conference, and this event will bring together Brazil's Minister of Health, um, WHO Director-General, PAHO Director, uh, Dr. Barbosa, ministers from around the world, civil society leaders, global partners, and all that to reaffirm the political commitment. And that's the important part here, needed to accelerate progress towards the 2026 hepatitis elimination target. So now, to take us through the latest data, again, my pleasure to introduce Dr. Olufunmilayo Lisi. She goes by Funmi. That's much easier for many of you and for me. She's cross-cutting lead here in Geneva for the hepatitis program and partnerships. And over to you now.

Thank you. Thank you.

Yes, thank you, Christian.

Go ahead, please, Doctor.

Okay, thank you very much. So, um, as we commemorate World Hepatitis Day today, we join the global community and nearly 300 million people living with hepatitis B and C with a message of both urgency and hope. Like Christian said, yesterday WHO launched the midterm assessment of the global health sector strategies on HIV, viral hepatitis, and sexually transmitted infections. We are reminded of the important progress the world has made. But for viral hepatitis, we are not moving fast enough to achieve our shared goal of eliminating viral hepatitis as a public health threat by 2030. So the report tells us 2 stories. On the one hand, it demonstrates real reasons for optimism. How the hepatitis B childhood vaccination has prevented millions of new infections, how the treatment for hepatitis C has cured infections, and how countries are beginning to integrate hepatitis interventions into preexisting systems. So this progress is possible when countries invest in prevention, testing, treatment, and strong health systems. But it also shows that viral hepatitis remains the major communicable disease for which mortality has risen over 17% in the past decade. Now, this contrasts with major communicable diseases like HIV, where deaths have declined by nearly 60% and continue to decline even as global investments have transformed the trajectory of that epidemic. In 2024 alone, hepatitis claimed 1.3 million lives, That brings it to 2 to 3 deaths every minute. So as we speak, people are dying of chronic hepatitis B and C and liver cirrhosis. Most of these deaths are caused by chronic hepatitis B and C infections that silently damage the liver and lead to severe scarring, liver cirrhosis, and liver cancer over many years. And these are largely preventable deaths. The reality is that millions of people still do not know that they're infected. only around one quarter of the people living with chronic hep B and just about one third of those with C have been diagnosed. So the treatment coverage is far too low. Less than 5% for hepatitis B patients are receiving treatment, and only 20% of people with hepatitis C have accessed the cure. So without a dramatic acceleration in testing and treatment, we will not achieve the 2030 target of reducing deaths by 65%. Now, the report highlights where we must focus our efforts, and I will just quickly go through a few points. First, we must prevent new infections. Hepatitis B vaccination is among the most powerful public health tools, and the global infant coverage now exceeds 84%, with new infections falling. Yet too many children in the Africa region are still missing that birth dose, and that coverage in Africa is only 17%, making Timely birth dose vaccination, an urgent priority. Additionally, we need to prevent unsafe injections and expand harm reduction for people who inject drugs, as this is essential to reduce new hepatitis C infections. Secondly, we need to dramatically expand diagnosis and treatment of hepatitis C and B. We have the tools. The science shows that treatment reduces cancer risk. So the challenge is not scientific, it's is ensuring equitable access. Thirdly, we must strengthen integrated person-centered health. Now, hepatitis cannot be a standalone vertical program. So integrating hepatitis services into HIV, primary healthcare, NCDs, and cancer prevention will allow countries to reach more people and use existing resources efficiently, building stronger resilient health systems. And finally, sustain the political commitment. And investments remain essential. Now, at a time when many health programs face financial pressures, the cost of inaction for hepatitis B will be measured not only in lives lost, but also in rising healthcare costs and growing inequalities. So the message of the midterm assessment is clear. What we need now is greater urgency, stronger political leadership, and accelerated implementation in the countries carrying the greatest burden. So today on World Hepatitis Day, WHO calls on governments, on partners, civil societies, and communities to work together to break down those barriers that continue to prevent millions from accessing prevention, vaccination, testing, and life-saving treatment. The challenge for us, therefore, is to move faster because every delay means more infections, more deaths, and we can prevent that. Thank you very much, and happy World Hepatitis Day.

Thank you very much. I take the liberty to also call you Funmi Lesi, Dr. Lesi. I'll open the floor to questions now. In the room first, Robin is our correspondent of AFP.

Thanks. Good morning. So, if viral hepatitis is the the only major communicable disease for which mortality is, is going up. Um, could you tell us a bit more about why? Why is it not stable or even declining? Why is it still going up? Thank you.

Okay, that's a really good question, and part of the reason why it's going up is that, like I said, less than one quarter of the people who need to be treated even know that they're infected. So people are not being diagnosed. People are not being treated. Less than 5% are treated. The question is why? And I guess part of the problem is the infrastructure and the funding landscape to elevate viral hepatitis in a national program. For many years, viral hepatitis has been treated as a specialized disease in teaching hospitals, in tertiary care centers. Now look at hepatitis B and C, and we look at their spread. spread over the various parts of the regions. Hepatitis B is concentrated in the Africa region and in the Western Pacific region, while hepatitis C is spread across various regions. So, in many of these regions, the programs do not exist. And what we're saying now is there's no need to have a vertical public health program. Integrating hepatitis B and C testing and treatment into preexisting preexisting systems, preexisting infrastructure like HIV or TB, NCD structures, primary healthcare will increase at a cost-affordable rate the number of people that have access to diagnosis and treatments. So like I said, the tools are there, the science is clear, the political will in countries to increase investment And the lack of, shall I say, global funding like HIV really has stunted the scale-up of effective interventions in hepatitis B and C. So I think I'll stop there. I hope that was clear.

It looks like Robin seems happy. Any other question for the doctor in the room? Or let me go to the platform. To see if any other question coming from there. I don't see any other question for you, Doctor. So thank you very much for briefing us on this World Hepatitis Day. And Christian, maybe I count on you to share the notes of the Doctor with the journalists. Thank you very much. So I'd like now to— thank you, Doctor. I'd like now to welcome our next speaker, who is— we have really the honor and the pleasure to have with us the Director General of IOM, Amy Pope. I'd like to invite her to the podium.

Hello, how are you?

Nice to see you all.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Pope, to be with us today. It's quite an honor. You have a briefing on protecting victims of trafficking in online scam operations, so we'll take your Thank you for your introductory remarks, and then you have kindly agreed to take questions. So please, go ahead.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. It's very good to see all of you here on this, what otherwise seems to be a sleepy summer day here in Geneva. I'm briefing you in advance of World Trafficking Day, which is on Thursday, but about a phenomenon that we are seeing more and more evidence of, and I know you've seen some of the press on it, specifically about people who are being trafficked into these online scam centers. We're seeing so many more of these cases emerge right now. We're seeing victims from over 80 different countries being trafficked into the scam centers. They're specifically playing out across Asia. Criminal networks are luring people with a promise of a job. The job opportunities are being advertised on social media networks, by and large. They present completely as a regular job. They're recruiting people who often speak English very well, who often have graduate degrees, some level of education. But when the victims themselves show up at the scam center, their passports are confiscated. They're often subjected to physical or mental abuse. They are often unable to leave, and they find themselves in circumstances that are well beyond their control. This is one of the fastest-growing areas of human trafficking in the world. It is highly organized. It is highly, highly profitable, and it's increasingly global. What UNODC put out fairly recently shows that the combined annual losses of of these trafficking scams are equal to between $88 and $114 billion last year alone. Our goal here in briefing this in advance of World Trafficking Day is to bring some attention to the cost of the people who are being victimized, the trafficked people who are being lured into these situations, who are being forced to work against their will in a system that further exploits vulnerable people, the victims of the scam centers. And what we're seeing is that the people who are being lured in, their families are often victimized as well. Their families are often selling land or property. They're raising money, taking on debt in the first instance to help the individual go get the job, but then often because they'll receive demands for ransom. And by the time the survivors are returning home— and IOM has worked with now more than 3,500 survivors from all over the world, 33 different countries. When they're coming home, they are coming home often very traumatized, often with very few resources, often in debt, and they've not only lost months or years of their lives, but the security of the families that they were trying to protect. So this is an important issue for a whole number of reasons. We're seeing many of the survivors of trafficking actually being identified as criminals, but in reality, they are the victims of this crime, of this scam. And so we're increasingly being called to work with governments, being called to work with the victims to prevent the recruitment, to get the word out about what's happening, to support their recovery, and to strengthen the cooperation across borders, because as we know, criminal networks are able to operate almost seamlessly across borders, escaping detection, escaping prosecution, evading investigation. World Day Against Trafficking is an important opportunity for us to shine a light on what's happening, to provide a little bit of detail, to give more information to the public, and importantly, to make sure that people who are being targeted as victims of these crimes, have the information that they need so that they ask the questions and are less likely to be victimized as a part of these scams. So my goal here, and my gratitude goes to all of you for your interest in this issue, is to make sure that we get this information out widely. We have information for governments to act, and most importantly, by keeping the issue in the public eye, we can help build the understanding and collective action to stop the criminal networks from profiting and exploiting people who can otherwise become extreme— who are being made extremely vulnerable and left with very, very resource— few resources, less than when they started out. So thank you for your attention. I look forward to having the conversation with you and answering any questions that you might have.

Thank you very much, Director General Pope. I start with Christiane Ullrich, who is From the German media.

Hello. Hello, Amy. Thank you for coming. You should come a lot more often to the briefings. Can you tell us, what can these people do? You said they sometimes have degrees. They are not totally ignorant.

I'm sorry.

In a rural setting. So, these are people who know something of the world. What can they do to make sure they are not falling victim to a trafficking gang? And can you expand a little bit on what these people that you have been working with have told you about their situations? What kind of scams are we talking about? And what are they telling you? How long do they stay in confinement? How do they get out? Thank you.

So there—

what we're hearing and we're seeing victims from— this is really widespread. We've assisted people from over 30 countries, but the information we have is that there are people from more than 80 countries. And I've had instances where I've been in Southern Africa speaking to governments and in response to helping their nationals come home, they had no idea where their nationals were in the first place. And so what they're— the way the information is coming in is it presents as a totally legitimate job. They're particularly seeking people who have English language skills. They're seeking people who have technology skills. And they're— in general, they're targeting people who have a college degree, mostly from countries where they have fewer opportunities. So the first instance— or the first the first objective here is to get information about these scams out so that it's widespread and that people will question and seek additional information, seek information, seek proof of where they're going, seek proof of the specific place, get phone numbers, get information about what they're supposed to be doing, job descriptions, et cetera. Because what often presents as something that looks like an ideal job opportunity is just too good to be true, and people are looking for jobs, and so they're very easily exploited, and they're not asking the follow-on questions that you might ask before you're being sent. Now, one thing we've seen, for example, is that many people are coming in on tourist visas. They're not being given the proper visas that would enable them to work. So that's one key question you should be asking: Will you help me to get the proper visa? If you're being asked to become— come in on a tourist visa for a job, that right there is a significant warning sign that people should be aware of. We're also working with many of these survivors of trafficking to build public awareness campaigns. We have one individual in Kenya who, after her experience, has gone out very widely on social media and within communities to make them aware, going out to universities so that they're aware. The problem is that it's hitting so many different countries right now. I mean, countries in Southern Africa that have no idea where Laos is, for example, or Myanmar, and they jump at an opportunity that they see when it comes up. And so there really needs to be some more vetting. We also need the governments themselves to be part of that vetting process.

Emma Farge, Reuters.

Hi, good morning. I wanted to know a little bit more about the evolution over time. Is this really new, or is this something that has existed for a long time? Has the number of people being trafficked increased significantly? If you have any data, that would help.

So I have been working on the issue of trafficking for more than 25 years, and I'd say The issue has evolved in a couple of ways. Number one is the way people are being trafficked. Right now, social media platforms like TikTok are being widely exploited by the traffickers to recruit people into their jobs. So they're able to target a much wider group of people than traditional trafficking schemes in the past. Second, it's not— we don't have great information on how long this has been going on, because we now see fairly well-developed parts, especially along the borders of some of these countries, where there are scam centers, well-constructed buildings, clear evidence that it's been going on now for some years. But the scope and the scale of it has expanded fairly dramatically within the last year. And then third, the populations that are being targeted. At the early days of these scam centers, it was primarily people who are coming out of Asia itself. The fact that we now have individuals from all over the world who are being trafficked into the country, into these countries, into these scam centers, is, is a shift from where we saw the, the early evidence of it.

Yes, do you have a follow-up?

Yeah, if I may, I think that Christiane's question wasn't answered, just a bit more about the type of scams and then how do the people get out of this? I would have thought that the people organizing this would be worried about them denouncing it, so how do they actually escape?

So the type of scams are primarily focused on— we've seen a lot in American markets and English-speaking markets. They're often scams that are targeting the elderly. We're all familiar with what is— what has been the increase in online scamming of especially people's life savings. You call, you give a number, you verify a bank account, you verify a computer system, you get— somebody gets access into your systems. So this is part of why people being recruited are people who have that kind of technical skill. as well as the English language skills. That's where, that's where we're seeing it play out. So significant impact in the United States, Australia, New Zealand, UK, for example. In terms of people getting out, now some of it is people who are effectively escaping, but we have seen a fairly significant increase of enforcement authority engagement in Thailand in particular. The Thai government has recognized the issue has become more and more engaged in identifying the scam centers and helping to exfiltrate people who are within it or to basically do these busts of the scam centers. But the reason why they're allowed to proliferate in such high numbers is because they're often operating right at the border. So you'll have an engaged government like the Thai government that wants to counter it, but it's operating just on the other side of the border. And you don't have the equivalent law enforcement engagement on the other side. So our estimates is that there are as many as 300,000 people who are still being— who are still working in these centers. And I want to emphasize, not everybody working in the center is a victim of trafficking. Certainly we know some people know what they're getting into, but at least some significant percentage of people are still going into those centers, centers and are still working in those centers, and there hasn't been the ability to access them.

Robin— sorry, you have a follow-up, Emma?

I'm just wondering, did you say there are about 300,000, you estimate, that are still working worldwide in those kinds of centers?

Yeah.

Robin is from AFP.

Hi. The governments in some of these host countries, are they Are they turning a blind eye to this effectively, or even worse, are they actually— are they in on it themselves? And secondly, are you getting much cooperation from the social media companies which are hosting these adverts?

In terms of whether they are turning a blind eye, many of the scam centers are operating in parts of countries that do not have strong governance or do not have strong law enforcement networks. So that is part of why they have proliferated as much as they have to date. So our goal in the first instance is to build the awareness, the— with some of our partners within the U.N. system, to build the investigative tools, to build the capacity of governments to do the kind of investigation, and then prosecution of the scam center operators. But it's fair to say that the capacity of many of these governments to do that kind of follow-through is not where it needs to be to take on the scale of the problem. On the issue— sorry, I missed your second question, if you don't mind repeating it.

It was on the social media companies that are hosting the ads and whether you're getting any cooperation from them.

You know, social media has been working with the anti-trafficking community for many, many years because we have seen since the beginning of social media the exploitation of the platforms to both lure victims into trafficking schemes, but also to provide access to trafficked persons, whether it's sex trafficking, labor trafficking, et cetera. And there have been some very good examples. Examples in the past, but the challenge of where there's been strong cooperation within social media platforms themselves. But it's one of these situations where you constantly have to keep up, and the traffickers are constantly innovating. And so identifying what are examples of posts that are luring people in, by the time you can respond to it, they've evolved. And so it really— this is a place where I think there's promising avenues around the use of AI and analytics to help identify trafficking schemes, but there's still a long way to go before we're able to do so successfully.

Paula Dupraz, Geneva Solutions.

Good morning. Thank you very much for coming to see us. I have a question regarding the type of conversations that you may be having with the UN UN's wider humanitarian efforts amid the donor crisis in light of the reports of the facilitation by the IOM regarding deportations from the US, which I think you call voluntary. deportations and the assistance that you're providing to those people such as in third countries. There was a report yesterday in PassBlue regarding your, you know, your efforts relating to these deportations.

So I think there might be a little bit of I heard in your question a couple of different, perhaps related, but not actually the same thing. So just to be clear, the third-country nationals who are being deported from the United States are being deported involuntarily. They are not voluntary. Removals are not the same thing as voluntary returns.

That's—

and we would not otherwise claim that they're voluntary. Those are deportations. There's a second question of where we support people who have been removed. And IOM for many, many years has supported people wherever they are when they're returned or where they're stranded. So the work we're doing with trafficking victims, the people who are being trafficked into these countries are not there voluntarily. Nonetheless, IOM helps provide them with humanitarian support. Likewise, with persons who are being returned into a third country, if the government asks for capacity or humanitarian support for those individuals, IOM, to the extent we have resources to provide them, provides humanitarian support. The question around engagement with humanitarian partners, UNHCR is also a partner in that work, so we have regular conversations with them. To the extent there are other humanitarian partners, there aren't that many who work on— we've conflated a bunch of issues, so there aren't others who work in that space.

Yeah, no, the question is rather, I mean, IOM, just as all the other humanitarian organizations, are facing a crisis in funding. And there's— I'm just interested to know how much that, you know, that crisis is impacting the policies that you have towards you know, these third-party agreements and your assistance of what you call voluntary deportations?

No, no, voluntary deportations is not a thing. There are no voluntary deportations. Deportation, by its definition, means that it's involuntary. So just— it's important to clarify. Second, I think the bigger funding crises are around things like trafficking. The amount of people who are being trafficked with— compared to the amount of resource that is coming in to support those victims and survivors of trafficking, it's far below what is needed. Where we also see pretty serious funding gaps are around some of the humanitarian responses, particularly in places like the Democratic Republic of Congo or where we have an emerging, as you know, Ebola situation, or in countries like Sudan. So IOM is— operates along the same humanitarian principles as any UN organization. We are there to provide support to communities regardless of the background of the individuals, regardless of the politics of the surrounding countries. That's the same standard we have maintained since the beginning, regardless of what kind of funding situation we are in, and that hasn't changed. Those same principles apply. The red lines still apply. And our job is to support people who need us most. And whether those are victims of trafficking in places like Laos or Myanmar or Cambodia or Thailand, or whether those are persons who are being returned involuntarily somewhere else but find themselves completely vulnerable without resources, without support, not speaking the language, our job is, as we are able, to show up and help provide that level of support. support to them.

Okay, just as a housekeeping, we have still Associated Press, France 24, and the New York Times, and Mrs. Pope has a hard stop at 4:45, so let's try to keep it for that time. Jamie.

Hello, Director-General, nice to see you again. I just want to follow up on the questions from my dear colleague Paula, because the report in PassBlue, which came out in late June, was pretty explicit about Some of the allegations, they say, for example, that the IOM has been closely involved with the agreements in third-country deportation agreements, if I understand correctly, criticized for their opacity and for enabling the U.S. to mass deport and disappear people to countries to which they have no ties. So can you just— there's a lot of concern and criticism about the U.S. policy in general about So could you just clarify to assuage concerns among some people that IOM may have some role in that? And, and what exactly is the relationship with the U.S. government on these issues?

Thank you.

Of course.

First of all, I want to be clear, there was very much in that PassBlue article that was not factually accurate. We've made that feedback to the PassBlue— to the people who wrote it to make clear that they were inaccurate. Accurately reporting the information or drawing conclusions that were not based on fact. So I just want to be absolutely clear about that. First of all, IOM has no role when a government negotiates an agreement with another government. We never have. That's not what we do. What we do do is where people need support, and in these cases, what we found is that many governments who are receiving migrants do not have the capacity to provide support to those migrants. They need help providing shelter to people. They need help integrating people. They need help assessing the protection claims. They need help identifying whether there are physical or mental health issues that need addressing. That's where IOM has come in. We're very grateful also to our partners at UNHCR who have helped identify and respond to any allegations around refoulement or protection issues. It's critical that there are safeguards in place to help support people who are being returned into what are often very vulnerable situations— people who do not have the contacts, who do not have the networks, who do not have the support. And our role at IOM has been to provide support to people wherever they are, under whatever circumstances.

Can I just follow up? So for example, they mentioned that there was $85 million that was given to IOM from the US and for South Sudan. And so if I understood you correctly, IOM is not involved in deportations. But what you said is that if they do get deported, then you can help them once they get there. Is that correct? Is that right?

That's right.

OK. And so I guess, what do you say about that? I mean, there are concerns that there might be a quid pro quo You know, the U.S. gives money to IOM and IOM helps the people. How do you assuage concerns about that?

So there is no $85 million for South Sudan that we're aware of, just again, fact-checking. We do work with countries, as we have since the beginning of time, to provide support around things like community stabilization, around job training. around support to displaced communities, around support to any vulnerable populations that may be coming in and out. That is what we've always done, and that's what we're doing here. So there are certainly places where we are unable to support because we don't have the capacity, or there are security issues, or there is— there are insufficient safeguards in place, and we're just unable to provide that level of support. So on this vast number of third-country nationals who are being returned to countries, we're not involved because we cannot get the assurances that we need. But if there are assurances and if there's a need, again, explicitly requested by the host government because they need the capacity, that is where we're able to get involved.

Catherine Fiancon, France 24. Catherine, you have to unmute yourself.

Thank you.

Yeah, you're up.

Yes, good morning, and, and really, uh, really, uh, happy to have the pleasure to see, uh, Amy back in the Palais. Uh, we missed you. So, um, I have a few questions. First of all, could you kindly send us, um, the notes or the press release, uh, with all, um, the data and the information? That would be really useful. And, um, one My question is, you explained that more and more educated people are targeted. Is it something that appears to be increasing? And is it a new trend? And my other question is about the criminal networks. Are they also based in Western countries? Because you mentioned that it is now taking place over 80 countries. So I suppose that it's going everywhere in the world. And I was also interested in knowing, you mentioned about the collaboration and the need to build capacities of most, for most of the countries. Is IOM working with UNOCD, with ILO, Thank you so much for your answers.

So this particular scam center trafficking scheme is a relatively new model. We've, of course, seen trafficking since the beginning of time and since the movement of people. As I said, I started my own career as a prosecutor for human trafficking cases, but this particular scam where people are being recruited from completely different parts of the world, from different regions, into countries to run these scam centers or run these scams is entirely new and is something that has been evolving at a faster and faster pace over the last couple years in particular. We first started seeing examples of this maybe just 2 or 3 years ago, but now the pace at which we're seeing it has increased quite significantly. In terms of where the criminal networks are based, the significant networks are actually based within Asia, but because of social media, because of the ability to now reach people from many, many countries away, their reach has expanded quite significantly. It is conceivable, of course, that there are enablers who are operating in Western different countries, and we certainly have many examples of trafficking of persons that has happened within the United States and Europe and other countries that have strong enforcement networks already. But this is at a scale where they're really taking advantage of the way commerce has developed, the way travel has developed, et cetera. I'd say also the partnership with UNODC and ILO are absolutely critical here. UNODC in particular, because of the work they do to train law enforcement so that law enforcement can respond to this phenomenon, is absolutely key. We are by and large working with governments and with the victims, the survivors of trafficking, building awareness of what's happening, informing, using our data to help inform our partners. But UNODC plays an absolutely critical role here. And then ILO, because this trafficking— any trafficking scheme is developing out of a labor market or a labor mobility. So having ILO setting the standards, helping governments to recognize signs of trafficking or exploitation of workers plays an absolutely important role here, is really a partner in the work. So this is not just about one UN agency. This is about multi-partners. It's not about just one country. There are multi-partners who are necessary if we're going to get our arms around this current phenomenon.

I know we only have 2 minutes. Please, quickly. Catherine, you have a follow-up, and then we'll go to The New York Times.

Yes, thank you for your answer. I'd like to know if, first of all, is the data well shared?

The different—

We have lost you.

Yes, I'm sorry. My question is, is the data well shared between the countries and the different UN entities and between the UN agencies? And also, do you have sufficient money, sufficient funds to organize campaigns to inform also countries? Because they know to know, they need to know about it.

So the data that we're sharing with you is data that is informed by our partners at UNODC. There's a lot of information sharing exchange between us. I'd say the information between the governments really depends on the capacity of the government. And so, as I said, we found a strong partnership with the Thai government, but some of the surrounding countries do not have the level of information or capacity to give the most fulsome reading on what's happening, which is why our estimates are estimates. They're based on what we're seeing from people who have come out, as opposed to the strongest information that we could get on the inside. And by its definition, trafficking is a criminal enterprise. It's happening within the shadows It's happening with people who are very, very skilled at hiding their activities, at obfuscating their sources of income, at obfuscating the job even that individuals are going into. So we should— we should understand that any information we're presenting to you is our best estimate based on information we've received from people who witnessed it, but it's likely far, far, far greater than what we've said.

Funds.

And then the funds. I love the question. The answer is absolutely not. When you think about something that is defrauding people in the billions of dollars, as I said, between East and Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand, annual losses are $88 to $114 billion U.S. dollars last year alone. And then you think about the very, very relatively disproportionately small resources that are going to fight trafficking, whether it's support for a UN agency, whether it's support for a government and its capacity on the ground, it just doesn't measure up. So, unless we take the issue quite seriously, we anticipate it will continue to grow.

I know you have to go, but you have accepted to take the very, very last question from Nick Ambrus, The New York Times.

Hey, yeah, good morning. Thank you for the briefing. Just coming back to the role of governments, there does seem to be clear evidence of some state complicity, significant state complicity in this. I'm just wondering, is that limited to taking a cut of the profits, or do you have evidence of some states that are actually active participants in organizing this stuff? And then secondly, you mentioned 300,000 people working in scam centers. What proportion of those are in Asia and what in other? regions of the world? Thank you.

On the numbers, the 300,000 people are in Asia. Those are the Southeast Asia estimates that we have. And to be clear, the phenomenon that we're seeing is primarily in Asia. That is, it's a number of countries. It's, you know, we're seeing it play out in places like Thailand, Cambodia, Laos. We even saw some evidence in the Philippines at one point, but it is primarily in Asia that it's playing out. And then in terms of governments, certainly if there are governments who are playing an active role, they're doing so in contravention of their own laws, but it also points to a weakness still existent in many, many parts of the world around protections for victims of trafficking, protection so that they come forward and share information, sufficiently significant penalties for persons who are trafficking, often sufficient— insufficient capacity to do the investigations. And so the activity is allowed to continue without the kind of interventions that are absolutely necessary. And the fact that the centers are operating across borders gives them additional impunity because When one country may have the appropriate investigative or prosecutorial capacity, and then the traffickers cross another country border and they do not have the information sharing they need or the enforcement capacity they need, it allows the traffickers to then escape prosecution or escape being held accountable for what's happening.

Mrs. Pope, thank you so very much for coming and addressing the journalists on this very important topic. Thanks, it's been a pleasure and an honor to have you here.

Thank you, thanks so much.

I'll say goodbye and then we'll continue with the briefing. Thank you, thank you again. So thank you very much to Mrs. Pope again and the colleagues from IOM. Let me now go to UNHCR. Matt has a short announcement for you. Matt, you have the floor. If we can connect with Matthew. Matt Saltmarsh is online. Yeah, yeah, we can hear you, we can hear you. You had an announcement about the event of today. Yeah, yeah, please go ahead.

That's right. Thank you, thank you, Ale. Good morning, everyone. Um, we already sent out an advisory to the Pali media on the commemoration event for the 75th anniversary of the Convention, the 1951 Refugee Convention, that's taking place in the Palais today. So you should have that. The event will start at 4 PM, and we will have speeches obviously from our High Commissioner, Bahram Asali, but as well as officials from Switzerland and from Geneva, our newly appointed Goodwill— Global Goodwill Ambassador, Wenyan Gabriel, Nadia Murad, who is a Nobel Peace Laureate and human rights activist, Yusra Mardini, who's also a UNHCR Goodwill Ambassador and Olympian, as well as other performances. And really, just to let you know that there will be a media stakeout just after that event around 5 PM in the Palais. We're going to send out an advisory via UNICEF. The media stakeout will probably last about 10-15 minutes with our High Commissioner, Bahram Saleh, and it will take place in Hall 14, which is right next to the Salle des Assemblées. So if people, journalists, would like to come and join us for that, do let me or my colleagues in the press team here know about that. So that's the 75th anniversary of the Refugee Convention today. Thank you, Ali. I'll hand it back to you.

Thank you very much. And before I ask if there's any question, please note that we have sent you the statement of the Secretary-General on the 75th anniversary of the 1951 Refugee Convention that is celebrated at this event, where you will see that the Secretary-General said that the promise of the Convention made by member states at the time of the Convention, in the aftermath of the Second World War, is today under strain, and he goes on explaining what is happening today when we look at the Refugee Convention and the situation of refugees. And he says, I call on every member state to renew its commitment to the letter and spirit of the Convention and to choose solidarity over indifference and humanity over fear. And you have the full statement in your mailbox. Any question to Matt or on the event of this afternoon? conference. I don't see hands up. Let me see on the platform. There is none. So thank you very much, Matt. Good luck with the event this afternoon, and thanks for the media alert. We received it. Um, the other press conference I wanted to remind you about is also with Nadia Murad, uh, like the event of this afternoon. This afternoon is press conference of Mrs.— press stakeout of High Commissioner Saliba. The event will see the participation of Nadia Murad, and she will also give a press conference together with the Permanent Mission of France and her own association called Nadia's Initiative. That will be on the 30th of July at 1 PM on the theme of the commemoration— on the commemoration of the Yazidi genocide. So that will be in press room, in this press room at 1:30 PM of July. Please remember, this is in person only, in person only. So that is on Thursday. Emma, you had a question?

I'm just wondering if Claire from the ULO is here?

Oh, let me see, because I had— let me see, I had a list of people. No, I don't think they're here, but let me check if by any chance Claire is here. Yeah, Claire is here actually. Claire, you're on the grill.

Good morning, Claire. Yeah, the grill is the right term because the question is about the heat. Um, could you tell us more about the outlook for France and how bad it could get, um, the wildfires, uh, with the next heat wave? And also, are the Alps and Switzerland at risk in your view?

Thank you.

For the outlook for France, I think you have to consult Météo-France. They are, you know, they are the experts on that. They're obviously doing a huge amount of work and they are working with authorities in France, you know, to try to minimize, you know, there's this catastrophic damage. It's not, you know, wildfires, it's not just a case of heat. It's also, you know, as we know, dry soils, its wind direction has a big impact on the spread of the fires. And what we've seen in France, I've just seen the most incredible image of a cumulonimbus cloud, which is, you know, it's like the big storm cloud. It's the king of clouds. And this was created by, you know, by the fire. And from what colleagues told me, it's the first time they've actually seen that in France. And it's where the fire literally creates its own weather. But as I said, for the detailed provisions, you do need to contact Météo-France because they, you know, they are issuing the alerts and the warnings. on it. I mean, just since this press conference started, I mean, my phone has been pinging nonstop with extreme heat alerts from, you know, from Meteo Suisse. So we are in for another extreme event, the latest in unfortunately a series, you know, combined with extreme drought. As regards the Alps in terms of fire. I think that's probably less likely, but obviously this, you know, this heat is going to be absolutely punishing, absolutely punishing for snow and ice and for glacier melt. It's, you know, it's still, we'll know more as the season progresses, but it's really, really bad news for for the cryosphere, for glaciers, for the environment, for agriculture, and obviously for human health.

Sorry, Antonio.

Thank you. Can you hear me?

We can.

Okay. My question is also for Claire and also on wildfires that are affecting Spain too. So, can you explain in what extent the meteorological conditions have been contributing to the severity and spread of these fires? And the WMO is always saying that the climate change is doing these disasters more frequent or more intense. Do you think—

Yes.

these disasters are being an example on what we can expect from climate change in the future years? Thank you.

Okay.

So, on the first question, to what extent have meteorological conditions impacted the wildfires in Spain? Hugely, absolutely hugely. You know, we've had We've had heatwave after heatwave after heatwave, you know, in the past few weeks. We have got very, very, very dry soils in, you know, in many parts of Europe. And I think from memory, you know, quite early on back in, I think, late May, you know, the Spanish Prime Minister back then warned that this would be a very, very bad fire season. As I say repeatedly, you know, fires are not started by the weather alone. You know, quite often they can be started by dry lightning, but there are, you know, there can be a number of causes, you know, be it technical problems, electricity lines, humans, arson, dropping cigarettes, etc. But the conditions for the fire weather in Spain, obviously, unfortunately, in France, in parts of Switzerland, are there. And climate change, more extreme heat, will certainly, you know, aggravate the risk. of fire weather won't necessarily lead to an overall increase in wildfires, but it certainly does increase the risk of fire weather. You know, conversely, you know, we are seeing some summer storms and, you know, what, you know, parts of Europe need right now is, you know, there's good heavy drenching of rain that would, you know, that would—

Yeah.

not solve the problems overnight, but it would certainly help in, you know, in the ongoing battles against the wildfires. If you need, I'm just back from leave, which is why I'm sort of taking part remotely, but if you need, I can, you know, we do have Spanish-speaking experts on wildfires, and I'm happy to, you know, to hook you up with them. Well, they also obviously speak English and possibly French as well, so just send me a, you know, quick WhatsApp or an email if you need to follow up.

I'm sure there will be interest in this, Claire. Any other question for WMO?

No?

Okay. So thank you very much. I just wanted to give you 2 more short announcements. As I know that many of you cover the situation in Cyprus, I just wanted to remind you that the Secretary-General is traveling to Cyprus as part of his Good Offices Mission and his strong demonstrated commitment to the Cyprus issue. He will meet with the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot leaders, as well as other stakeholders, and discuss efforts to advance the peace process and support stability on the island, including through the work of the UN peacekeeping mission on the ground there. So that is for your follow-up in case you want to follow this, this visit or communicate this information to your colleagues on the islands. And then also I wanted to remind you that Friday the Palais des Nations is closed because we commemorate one day earlier the Swiss National Day, so there will be no briefing on Friday. And if there is anything important, of course, we will keep you informed by email. I think I've given you all I had in— yeah. So if there are no other questions for me, I don't see any. Thank you very much, and I'll see you hopefully this evening at the press conference and/or Thursday.