Public interactive event with Gilbert F. Houngbo

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we're about to resume our public interactive event with our next candidate, Mr. Gilbert F. Hongbo of Togo, the incumbent of the post. As we resume, may I remind those present in the room to remain seated and silent for the duration of the interview to ensure the smooth running of the webcast. Participants joining us online should keep their microphones switched off until they are invited to speak. At the conclusion of the interview, we will take a 10 minute break. So, I would like to invite you to begin your interview with a short five-minute presentation of your candidature. You have the floor, sir.

Thank you so much, Chair. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all of you. Four years ago or five years ago, I was elected. That election was a very strong choice that you made going beyond my own person by electing for the first time an African Director General, you sent a quite powerful message to the world that leadership in this institution belongs to all regions and all people. Four years later, the whole geopolitical situation, economic transformation have changed. But one thing that has not changed is the very fundamentals that led to the creation of this institution. Yet over those four years, together, we have delivered despite quite very difficult circumstances. The ILO's strength lies in its ability to come together, build a consensus around a simple truth. Without labor rights, there can be no sustainable prosperity. And without productive enterprises, there are no sustainable jobs. And without social dialogue, we cannot build consensus for change. Keeping that in mind, if entrusted with a second term, there are three things that I want to highlight in those introductory remarks, which will be part of my vision and my priorities. One is to strengthen the institution, focusing our our focus back on our mandate. And our mandate, we're talking not just about the normative action or the supervisors, but also about the four pillars of our decent work agenda, including social protection, enterprise, job, as well as social dialogue. At the same token, we need to keep in mind that our very immediate priority is the financial stability of this institution through the reform that we are going through. The second point, of course, is continuing what you have launched with the coalition for the social justice. And the third is start shaping the ILO for the future based on those transformation that I was referring to, particularly in terms of innovation, technology, and AI, where I really want to put ILO to become the international reference point when it comes to the labor dimension of artificial intelligence and the technology changes. The future belongs to countries that invest in labor rights, invest in skills, innovation and productivity. In that context, I also want to propose the creation of a very high level of experts, including our tripartite constituents, in and for us to advise this House and this body when it comes to the AI implication for the labour forces, for the world of work. So I will be presenting to you the idea of creating a high-level panel with scientists, experts, private sector to help us in this endeavour. In an increasingly polarized world, the ILO's responsibility is to build bridges, create trust, and forge common solutions. That's the leadership that I offer. Principled, pragmatic, and focused on results. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much. And now we're going to go ahead with the question and answer part of the dialogue. And the first representative is Mr. Matthias Tons of the employers. Over to you, please.

Thank you, Chair, and good afternoon, DG. It's my honor to present the first question on behalf of the employers group. and the further three questions will be provided by ILO Vice Presidents across the regions, which are online. DG, as you seek re-election, what would be your top priority and what would you be prepared to deprioritize, given the organization's limited budget and the need to make the ILO more agile more effective and more responsive to the changing world of work and also the changing needs of constituents. What can we expect for the second mandate? Thank you.

Thank you. DG, over to you, please.

Thank you so much. I want to thank the Vice President of the Board, What will be the priorities? Of course, I just highlighted the key element of it. I think it's clear that the day one, even before officially taking over, is to finish up the reform, including the medium to long-term financial viability of the institution. What to deprioritize, of course, we have gone through that since December. In the current functional review, that has forced us to also go one step further. You have heard me, and what we are doing in terms of our HIV/AIDS work, that has to be deprioritized. We will cover that through employment in terms of discrimination, the social and solidarity, and rural employment. we want to deprioritize the standalone dimension of it, but the work we continue through mainstreaming. Of course, in terms of the crisis dimension, it's also a dimension where I do believe that we have sometimes stepped in the humanitarian territorial, and we are back to post-conflict support to our member states and our workers and the employers. what to, of course, the action programs, the action program on informality, action program on just transition, we are closing them down as well, but we create a small unit in what, for policy coherence to ensure that, because based on the assessment of the past four years, policy coherence in moving forward. What is interesting. We are ILO, I don't think that we should expect as a big department, social protection or enterprise should just shut down. No. But within each department, there are activities that we should deprioritize. I'll give you an example that could surprise some of you. If you take the norm department, of course, norm is our number one priority. But the communication, outreach activity of the norm department, we are deprioritizing it. The Knowledge Center for OSH in governance department, we are deprioritizing it. Those are some of the example. What to expect, please, again, AI, AI, AI, which is one. Secondly, reinforcing our support to the field. You heard me say this, reinforcing our support to the field. Imagine if today our existing 200 instruments are fully ratified and fully implemented effectively. It will be a huge step forward. So you should expect that. And thirdly, is the financial stability.

Thank you very much, DG. We're now turning to Ms. Sonia Janihee for the employers online.

Thank you so much. Good afternoon, DG. My question is focused on balance. Employers and many stakeholders outside the ILO are far from viewing the ILO as a balanced organization. ILO has been set up as a tripartite organization for very important reasons, but the organization's mindset is not balanced and is seen as very pro-trade union. And it is not just a perception. We have actually seen this. So what do you plan to do in the next four years to restore this balance within the ILO? And that is, what measures do you plan to take to ensure neutrality in the ILO's office approach and also to ensure that both employers' and governments' views are better integrated into the organization's policy? Thank you.

Thank you. DG.

Thank you, Miss Mohammed. And we, at the outset, let me recognize that I'm very much aware about the concern from the employers group on the issue of balance. That goes, it reminds me, discussion four years ago with Renate. I think the very first thing that I wanted to do is that Sometimes it could be perception than reality. I want to believe that there's no rule with that exception. By far and large, the rule is that ILO professionals, ILO staff remain impartial in all we do. But as I said, there's no rule without exception. So my very first point is to moving forward particularly is to have opportunities that when you come across issues of alleged impartiality to bring that to my attention. The second thing is for us to step up and starting with the Director General, the listening, leadership is also about listening. So to be able to listen to the different group, the issues that you have, and particularly when we are working on document, and so that to ensure through informal or formal consultation that we get your views. Thirdly, you know, sensitivity is around some management post. Not necessarily, I'm not talking about ADG, DDG where I I have to consult with you. Even for some D2, D1, sensitive appointment, I want to consult much more with you. Formally or informally so that we could come to a point where people who appoint you you do not see them as prima facia impartial on that. As I say, sometimes the people may not be neutral because as an individual they may have their position, but important to remain impartial. So that consultation before appointing is one thing that is important to me. Internally too, what I also start doing is to increase the review mechanism of the document before we get to the board and to ensure that that impartiality is remained because it's the core of our credibility as an office. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We now go to Mr. Thomas Maco from the employers online.

Hello. Thank you, Director Hongbo. My focus is going to be on implementation. How can the ILO, how will the ILO under your leadership in this next term ensure that international labor standards, once they're ratified by member states, are effectively implemented and enforced in practice, and that sufficient attention and resources are devoted to closing the implementation gap? and ensure that the priority remains within the ILO on making existing standards effective rather than developing and adopting new standards where there is no demonstrated need for additional instruments.

Thank you.

DG.

Of course, I don't hide from that major issue. While I've been pushing for us to increase the expertise available on the ground. That's exactly one of my objective to increase the capacity of effective implementation by the existing instrument. And secondly, being able to help our member state in their national policies and required. The other thing that you will see in the ongoing reform and in the following step is the same thing. We are doing doing everything possible to preserve the capacity on the on the ground. Um that's why if you look at what we presented in the special session of the GB the regions and no are the one that were the least affected. The region 10% and 11 11%. And that you should expect that to continue. One thing that we're also doing in line of that of the regions and the regional setup. We have not totally done yet on that because we also want to take into consideration the UN 80 dimension with the regional reset. Last, during the summer, what we have done, we have some kind of internal workshop where the Department of Norm in Geneva and the regions met in a way to see how best to provide that support to member states, taking into account the practical reality that the region are facing on the ground, so to avoid some kind of a pure top-down approach. And that experience, I want to expand it to other dimensions, not just norm, but to social protection, to governance and employment and enterprise and so forth, to make sure that we can help bridge that gap. But for me, there are two important things. I can comment in terms of new norms. Nobody's interested to have new norms for the sake of new norms. But collectively, just like we have done for the Convention 193 and others, to come to a consensus, a consensus that, okay, there is a gap in this domain, this area, then that will lead to potential. But you have to be consensual to start with, in my mind. On the flip side, ensuring that the expertise is there for our member state to be able to implement the existing, ratify what they have not and implement the existing is crucial. And that's how I see us improving the overall effective implementation.

Thank you very much. We now go to Ms. Jacqueline Mugo from the employers online. Jacqueline, we can't see you, but can you see if we can hear you?

Yes. Can you hear me?

We can hear you. Please go ahead.

Okay. Let me just go ahead. Sorry about the camera. Good afternoon, DG and Chair. DG, my question has to do with the enabling business environment or enabling business. The ILO cannot be solely about standards. The ILO is the global home of employment policies. In many of our countries, policies are unrealistic, regulations are rigid, and businesses, especially small ones, are being stifled by higher taxes, legal requirements, and administrative hurdles. We also believe that ILO policies and standards often prevent businesses from moving forward and creating jobs. So what specific steps do you plan to take to ensure that ILO regulations and policies do not create further obstacles for business?

Thank you. DG.

Thank you so much, Ms. Mugo. Quite honestly, listening to you, the flash that I get back to my mind is when I was in government. That resonates a lot. Those are issues when you're a prime minister from a low-income country out of crisis that you face with the informal economy, SMEs that are struggling. And we can also imagine the trigger of the Arab Spring in Tunisia and so forth. So I'm very much sympathetic with what you're saying. This is why, two years ago, what I put in my report to the ILC, the real challenge for us to have the balance Economic growth, protection, and job creation. Even the protection and job creation, they are not necessarily linear on the same direction. So those three dimensions is very important for us to keep that in mind. That being said, two things that I want to point out, Madam Mungo. One, ILO does have a very positive experience in Better Work score. on the enterprise network we set up in the context of child labor, forced labor, the disability, I think. And also, I can refer to the the Vision Zero fund that was set up about 10 years ago as well. And there are good experience that we can get from there where by bringing together the private sector, the trade union, both national, international, helpers always see how policy-wise the country can move ahead. you know, in balancing this activity. And this is what I really want to expand also as part of alternative financing for our activity. So it's really, I believe we could, we need to step up on those experience that we have positively. The other side of the puzzle Now, you can also understand one of the reasons why I have created the Office of the Chief Economist. When you are talking about the fiscal burden, the whole fiscal space dimension, the administrative burden is crucial for us. ILO does not have all the expertise required, and we need, important for it to engage with the World Bank and sometimes some of the development banks on that. and that is going to be crucial for us to move forward. Right now, we are working with IMF on four, five countries in dealing with the fiscal space and how we could create a space to finance social protection, for example. So this is also one avenue that I believe we need to explore.

Thank you very much. Thank you to the employers. We now go to the governments and we are going to start with Mr. Brian O'Brien from Ireland, who will ask two questions on behalf of Europe and Central Asia. Your first question, please, sir.

Thank you, Chair, and good afternoon, DG. At a time of significant financial pressure across the UN system and of growing concern about member states, about duplication and overlap between international organisations, and noting the existing opportunities in terms of synergies between UN agencies, how would you define the ILO's unique comparative advantage within the UN system? And if elected, what measures would you take to maintain the ILO's leadership within the multilateral system and to create more synergies with other relevant UN agencies? And finally, what concrete indicators would you use to measure whether your leadership was successfully has successfully strengthened the organization's relevance and influence? Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Of course, the duplication and the need to create synergy, these are the heart of the UNAT, which we are part of. And our leadership, how to maintain ILO leadership, is already been there. You know very well that in that process, the specialized agencies work has been co-led by myself and my colleague from ITU, Doreen Bogdan, on that. So it's something that will continue. And again, as I see, our to maintain our leadership, the Global Accelerator work with the framework that we established, working with several UN agencies in more than 30 countries that have volunteered to be in the pilot phase. Again, ILO is in the lead role. And this is what I really want to put in the context of the UN area. there are two things that remain quite for me critical in moving in moving forward. As you know, we as a result of that work from the specialized agency, we we come we came with this idea about expertise on demand. And of course, our unique expertise, be it on forced labor, be it on child labor, on 98, 87, 98, in terms of freedom of association, collective bargaining, the social dialogue, the social protection, informality on that domain that are quite very much respected. I intend, I already instructed ECR, our of external and corporate relation to engage in bilateral discussion with colleague like IOM about labor migration and other colleagues such as UNDP and UNICEF to ensure that we are much more complimentary instead of stepping on each other's toes. What could be the indicator? You know, first of all, before talking about the indicator, it seems to me that it's going to be important not to limit ourselves to the UN system per se. Again, I want to come back on the IFIs, which is going to be important for us to exercise leadership to ensure that the regional development bank and the Washington colleagues embed our fundamental principle and that at work in their due diligences and in their modus operandi and the work right now we step up the work with the World Bank in that regard as related to jobs. The indicators can be how many the partnership that we will be signed with other UN agencies, not only the number, but how operational those partnership are. And you know very well that ILO, because of our uniqueness, unique expertise, we created the index in AI to measure the vulnerability. It could be also how many external come to ILO or ILO website to really take up those information. It's the same with the report, the annual report that we want to start producing. And so that's going to be an idea, but I need to think deeper to see what could be the KPIs.

Thank you very much, Digi. Mr. Brian, your second question, please.

Thank you, DG. And my second question is on gender equality. The 2026 International Labor Conference adopted an ambitious transformative agenda for gender equality in the world of work. As director general, how would you ensure that gender equality remains a protected and clear institutional priority and that the commitments made by the conference translate into concrete and measurable results?

Thank you very much, DG.

Of course, in terms of gender equality, you have heard me since the GB in November 22 make very clear statement on where I stand, and I want to recall and repeat on those statements. Listen, the discussion in the last ILC and the conclusion will certainly be guiding us, and you will see that in the upcoming in the upcoming program and budget 2829, be it in terms of the role related to gender equality in the equal pay, equal pay for work of equal value, be it in terms of care economy, be it in terms of ensuring that with this transformation in the AI, women and girls are not left behind, the implementation of 190 in terms of harassment and violence on the workplace. All of that coming from the IEC is going to be our compass. So I want to be very clear on that. It's also important to look at that from internal perspective. Five years ago, I made a commitment before you that I want to make gender balance 50/50 at P5 and above level. In all transparency, today, globally, our global workforce, if in October 22, when I took over, 53% were women, today we are 55%. The P5 and above, we were 38%, today we are 46%. I must say that, okay, I'm not there at 50%, so I still have work to do, but the first term, I still have one year to move in that direction. So it is important for you that, those that will be interested, you know, in the system, we have what we call the SWAP, the System-Wide Action Plan, and UN Women is kind of the, the moderator on that. And every year, around November, they issue a report on all, I believe, UN agencies and the work we are doing with performance indicator. When I took over in October 22, ILO was scoring 50% in terms of meeting or exceeding the performance indicator. By the end of 2024, we were at 75%. on that. It tells you the progress we are making, but it also tells that we still have a way to go because we are not at 100 yet. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. We're now going to go to Africa. I'll give the floor to Mr. Yakuba Abarcar from Niger, please, for your first question.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Director-General Homburg, for being willing to come and participate in this here with us. My first question, if you, Director-General, were to be re-elected, what would be your strategic vision and what would be your tangible priorities in order to put into practice the Decent Work Agenda in Africa? How would you envisage attaining tangible, measurable results, bearing in mind the financial constraints that you're working within, as well as the staffing decisions that have already been taken? Thank you.

Thank you. I thank the delegate of Niger, who spoke on behalf of Africa. It is clear that what I eagerly awaiting, first and foremost, is the outcome of the African regional meeting to be held in Namibia. The results of that meeting will be crucial to the 2028-29 budgetary process for Africa. Subject to that, It's clear to me that there are a number of issues, informality, social protection, youth employment, also the multifaceted transformation that is going on in the world today. These are four things that apply very much to Africa. And I can reassure Africa and indeed others also that I wish to reiterate what I said a little earlier. It is vital that we preserve technical capacity in the field. That is a red line for me. That is not negotiable. When we talk about 10 per cent cuts as part of the reform process, we are doing that, but we are bearing that in mind, because we know that what we are doing is very important and it must not be seen as purely a withdrawal from certain activities. We are trying to enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of what we are doing. When you talk about tangible results, we are going to have outputs. And these outputs will be program and budget outputs. And as you know, we will be reporting on that on a biannual basis. And we will report then every two years on the results that have been achieved over the past two years. But what's really important is for Africa is the Windhoek meeting and the results that will come out of that meeting, because they are really going to be vital in driving forward our future activities in Africa. Thank you.

Thank you, DG. Niger, your second question, please.

Thank you, Chair. My second question. The ILO right now is moving forward in a particularly difficult context of financial constraints, geopolitical fragmentation and deep transformation of the world of work. What specific experience and achievements when it comes to management in this complex multilateral and tripartite context would you bring to bear as Director General and given the experience that you have gained how would that allow you to achieve results when you take office for a second term if you are re-elected?

Thank you very much DG.

Thank you thank you very much well First and foremost, there's one thing I think I have to say, with all due humility, I think you have to bear in mind that when I started my career, I was trained in accountancy and throughout my career, financial management has really been what I have been involved in, financial management and crisis management. These have really been my bread and butter for many years, and I think you have to bear that in mind. I make another point. In March 2025, when donations from a significant donor were suspended, that triggered a number of results relating to staff. At that point, we had already started working on financial forecasts for the rest of the biennium. When we had the liquidity crisis later in September, we were well positioned to take immediate steps without panicking, because we had seen it coming. We were prepared for it and had planned for it. I was able to build on experience that I have gained over recent decades in guiding that process. There is another thing that we have to recognise. The ILO is a very unique organisation. We have to understand how it works and is structured internally in order to allow it to do the most that it can do and be the best that it can be. We have to be quite honest about this. The ILO is the only UN agency that has a true staff union, and a staff union that is very well organised and run. That allows us to have productive social dialogue. All of this is a unique experience that can be gained only within the ILO. And if I am re-elected, I will be able to continue to build on those strengths and build on my experience. Another point, my life experience has allowed me to know the Southern Hemisphere, where I come from, the Northern Hemisphere, where I have spent a lot of my career, the public sector, the private sector. companies, business, also the multilateral system. I've been very lucky. I've been able to work at a very high level in three UN agencies. So I know a lot about multilateralism and about the ongoing reform, and I think I'm well placed to say something about it. So I want to take this reform forward. I know the direction I want to go in. If you give me the chance to do it, I know where I want to go between now and 2032. Thank you.

Thank you very much. So now we're going to move from Africa to the Americas, and I'll give the floor to His Excellency, Ambassador Raul Canio Ricciardi. of Paraguay. Ambassador, to you, please.

Thank you very much, Chairman, and thank you to the Director General, Mr. Humble. The topics that we are interested in developing countries, in particular the countries of the South, is reducing informality and tasks on the ground. On this note, I would like to ask you, Mr. Director General, how do you plan to ensure that the ILO continues the activities of the regional and national offices and the transition economy towards formality? And this supportive economy, ensuring that they're in line with the priorities of developing countries. Thank you.

Thank you, Ambassador. Let me start by recalling what I also said for many years now, that globally, our activity on the ground has to really be based on the national priorities, that we cannot just go to a country and just impose ourself, although we do have a responsibility to promote international laws, including labor laws. So that national ownership is something that for me has to be very clear. The The informality, which is a major challenge, productivity, a major challenge in Latin America and the Caribbean. First of all, you might recall last November, you really gave us guidance and asking me to come back next November with a global roadmap. This is what we are working on and we'll be finalizing that and present that. So you will see that what we are proposing, if you approve it, is to have a set of action at a global level and a set of action, particularly at the local level, and taking into account the national circumstances, ensuring that we do not have any solution, kind of one solution fits all approach. And I can assure you that that is really in line with what we have been hearing from the region. You mentioned also, I hope I got it right, otherwise please correct me, in terms of the social and solidarity economy. As I was saying, I believe responding to one of the employers' question, you know, sometimes there could be some kind of a miscommunication or misinformation. You know, the social and solidarity economy, I think is part of our constitution, and it's important. I think is part of our constitution. So it's important to keep that in mind. We are not disinvesting in it, but we are deprioritizing the programmatic self-standing approach in a way that will help us continue the work, at the same time being efficient and saving some cost. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Gigi.

Now we're going to go to Ms. Sharon Peek. Canada. Over to you, please, ma'am.

Thank you very much, Chair. Good afternoon, DG. My question is going to be about the fundamental principles and rights at work. As the ILO continues to reform, it must remain focused on its core mandate, with the five fundamental principles and rights at work at the center. That requires not only strong labor standards and supervision, but meaningful follow through when supervisory bodies identify serious or persistent concerns. As ILO Director General, what would you do to strengthen the ILO's focus on the fundamental principles and rights at work and ensure follow through on supervisory recommendations? Thank you.

Thank you, Canada. DG.

Thank you so much, Canada. First of all, what we are currently doing, including the functional analysis, the fundamental principles and rights at work are our focus, the primary focus, so that can only continue, there's no doubt. What we have also done as part of this deprioritization exercise is to go back to most of our existing DWCPs, Decent Work Country Programmes, and to see what are the demands we are receiving from member states. And it's very much interesting, the fundamental principle and right at work are really plus informality, youth employment and of course SME support are kind of the major thing that comes out more and more also about the productivity as you will move to artificial intelligence. So that one will remain the core. When we're talking about refocusing for me is that our primary activity. Then in terms of the supervisory mechanism, what do we do to really, you know, there are a lot of discussion on the supervisory mechanism. There are three things that I want to do. You have to see that all together, you cannot look at one dimension without the other. The supervisory mechanism can only be effective if we start with a very clear, robust and up to date body of standards. This is where I believe the ongoing work of the SRM is so crucial, and I want to thank those of you that were there last week. So the work of the SRM is going to be important to make sure that we maintain a very robust up-to-date standard. The second dimension of it, the supervisory mechanism itself, we cannot keep it standstill. We need to keep making progress, improving. And this is why when I start, and if you go back to 2021, when I launched my first campaign, I spoke about the need to, I'm quoting, modernize our normative system. And I'm repeating the same. We need to continue in that modernization. And the challenge that I learned in 2023, I think, to know is the reporting burden. I remember what I had to do when I was Prime Minister and talking to other colleagues. So the more we have new convention, the more reporting, Big challenge for Member States, big challenge for the Office. That's why the reform that you have approved under the reporting, the thematic reporting under Article 22, approved in November, is essential and we are confident that by 2027 we will implement, we will be able to implement that. So we need to do that. Thirdly, again, we need to keep the very targeted Development cooperation, technical assistance to member states that are facing some complaint on Article 24 or 26, sometimes despite the frustration one could think of, is important to keep that door open and making sure that we are there with the member state and keep that consultative engagement.

Thank you very much. Now we're going to turn to Asia and the Pacific, and I'll give the floor to Mr. Mei Li from China.

Thank you, Chair. On behalf of Asia and Pacific, I wish to raise two questions to the DG. DG, I will put forward my question in English. First, dear DG, regarding the regional underrepresentation within ILO workforce, how will you align the reform measures and contingency framework with concrete measures to address regional underrepresentation, especially Asia Pacific. Thank you.

Thank you very much. DJ. I have to confess that four years ago, there was a similar question coming from ASPAC, which means that we have not done fully the job. And I will certainly commit that I will continue on that. And I remember the question was also based about the language and dimension. That side, of course, I believe we have worked on that and solved that problem. What I can assure you, whether it's for ASPAC or for all other regions, based on the guidance you gave us in June and all along the past GPs, we are very very mindful. Making sure that the current ongoing process do not negatively impact the existing regional representation and under representation. And I can assure you that as of yesterday at least or as of last week the process is not over. As of last week I remain confident that we will be able to look into that. Secondly is moving forward. of course, countries that are severely underrepresented, we are engaging and we have to engage in specific HR in the process of implementing our HR strategy, HR department engaging with those countries. So to make ILO better known or the job that I've been advertised, how do we ensure that they are considered also at a political level on that. So that being said, I think there are two things that we need to consider. The regional balances in the global geopolitical and what is considered really underrepresentation. As of today, the number of countries that are underrepresented, I think is 11 or 12 countries that are underrepresented. So we can even surgically target recruitment in those countries relatively easier than in the past. But the regional dimension is where I also want to focus on. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I just have to make sure because I believe there are two questions from the Asia Pacific region. One is supposed to be from China and the other one from Bangladesh, is that right? So, but I will allow you because I guess you could have read both questions together like, shall we be honest, many other colleagues have. So I'll let you ask the second question, but I will have it recorded as one question that you've asked. So over to you, please.

Thank you. Thank you, Chair, for your indulgence. And thank you, DG, for recognizing the issue underrepresentation. So the following is about AI. Regarding labor governance in the context of AI, what are the ILO's comparative advantages and what role would the ILO play in shaping the labor market with wide usage of AI in the workplace? Thank you.

Thank you.

Over to you, DG.

In terms of the labor market and the connection of AI, you know, two years ago, we set up this observatory, which is really a knowledge platform that already you could see other colleague institution are tapping on our system to see into the labor dimension of it. As I said in my introductory remarks, I really want to make of ILO, this is one of big that I'm putting on myself for the second term if accorded, is to make ILO the reference point internationally. Right now, we have developed, our research department has developed a vulnerability index. that can help you member states to assess your vulnerability from labor dimension. And we have worked on that with the World Bank. Now we want to move from that to not only assessing the vulnerability, but assessing how companies, how institution, adopt the AI and how member states adapt to the current circumstances, including at the policy level. This is one big thing for me. The second is really ensuring that we can apply AI in assisting our member states in building the labor institution, including inspection, including the labor market information system and so on. The third pillar that I'm really thinking of is the whole issue. You know, there was a lot of debate ongoing on the governance dimension and also how on a consensual basis, bringing together all the three parties we could, I think, and again, I have to be prudent, it's just a thinking that I have yet I need to mature that thinking. after maybe next cycle, very likely the SRM will have to sunset. I believe moving forward in the current transformation, in current uncertainty, we need to have a tripartite mechanism that might be able to identify possible new gaps and how we go about it. And in doing that also, it's important for us to know that, and I've said it many times, the labor productivity is going to be central. Labor productivity is going to be central. And this is on labor productivity, but you might tell me it's a global total factor productivity. And I agree, but I recognize that the investment, the capital side of the issue, maybe we have less of experience, and this is why we want to also to work with with the World Bank and others. And that connection for us is important that we also outreach. Next year, the host country, Switzerland, is going to organize the AI Summit after India this year, Korea, France, and UK. We need also outreach to see the place that we could play on that. But ILO has an important role to play when it comes to the governance labor related side of the issue. This is why in my introductory remark, I was saying that it's my plan to to propose to the GBA creation of a group of experts, you know, from the scientific, from the current AI companies, obviously, from the workers, employers, and the representative of government, so that that panel can advise the office, can advise in how do we stay on the of it when it comes to the labour dimension of AI. Thank you.

Thank you. We now go to the second question from ASPEC, which is Mr. Aminul Islam from Bangladesh, please.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, DG, for participating. Bangladesh would like to ask this question on behalf of my group. In your assessment, what are the top three major challenges facing Asia Pacific region? And at this critical juncture, how will you ensure the challenges will be effectively addressed by ILO? Thank you.

Thank you. DG.

Listen, I think in aspect, you have to recognize, I hope you will agree with me, the region is so diverse that you know, what will be top three priority in one side of the region may not be the same three priority in another side of the region. We need to take that into account. And the level of the economic activity and development also can have big variance. We have to take that into account. Subject to that, it's clear to me that obviously the supply chain and its relation with labor clauses, the challenge that the region is having to balancing the supply chain as a wealth creator, economic growth creator, with the need to respect labor rights is one thing. A month ago, I was in a Bangkok meeting with the ASEAN Minister of Labor, and I was surprised to see that more than I was expecting, more and more countries in the region are facing the challenge of aging population. On on that. So this for me is going to be also another thing. Uh by far in large despite what I said at the beginning. I think with maybe one or two exception. I think most of countries are facing challenging in terms of labor migration. Uh on on that which also will come to me. And as we all know across Asia, Latin America, Africa, in some places in Central Asia, the informality is also a major challenge. That's what I would say. And what we are doing, and I think we have to continue doing, you might recall that since the the Singapore regional meeting and declaration that called really for a strong action from a regional dimension, which we have been implementing and we will continue implementing that. And also at the subregional or bilateral work program that I think we need to work on. On that one, it's important for me, you know, after Indonesia, G20 and India G20. Today, one thing that came up very strongly is the workforce portability, which has created a work that ongoing, I think, with India, ILO, with German funding, I think, on that. And again, you can see that in ASEAN countries, for example, the the skill recognition starting with the region is moving forward and that's why we associate ourselves with that. But clearly, when I talk about supply chain, we also have to refer to the need for skills, and for skills, particularly countries like Bangladesh and others in the region that are big exporter in the garment sector and others. So to me, And so, how do we deal with that? On one hand, you have countries that have a big exporter of labor into other countries, at the same time can face labor shortage on that. This is where I want also to focus with those countries. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We now move to the workers, and I give the floor to Ms. Kathleen Paschier, who is online. Kathleen.

Good afternoon, all, and especially our Director-General, Gilbert. Let me immediately ask you the following question. In your vision statement five years ago, you put a lot of emphasis on the importance of social justice, going back to the constitutional foundation of the organisation, which we very much welcome. This time, your vision statement is focusing on the reforms of the ILO and on driving prosperity through productivity. At a time of shrinking resources, where we have to focus on preserving the core mandate of the organization, how would you convince the workers in the world that your productivity agenda will deliver for them? And how would this be reconciled with the need to address growing inequalities, the broken social contract, and the imbalance of power in economies and labor markets between workers and employers, recognizing that the protection of workers is at the heart of the ILO, but not the promotion of business? Thank you.

Thank you. Over to you, DG.

Thank you so much, Madame Pasquier, Vice President of the Board. Clearly, I want to reiterate this what I was saying in my opening remarks. I put it the second set of priority in continuing the work we are doing in the Coalition for Social Justice. Last week, we have the annual forum online. It was very much a positive that you see that if we spend the first year trying to set it up, the platform, now we are at a point where member state institutions are using it with very growing. Today we talk about more than 400 partners and that is continuing. And it's very important to know what we're doing with the fight against inequality, as you said, with initiatives such as the cotton and the labor closest initiative that we are working with WTO, the global accelerator, which is helping moving not only social protection in the context of just a transition. So that is, and I want to be clear, is and will remain high on the agenda. When I'm talking about productivity, I think we have absolutely no choice. Productivity imposes itself in the context of AI as necessity for us to spend more time and invest more in it. But don't forget that there's also one dimension that will help fighting the inequality is the productivity, the redistribution, the distribution dimension on it. And I don't know to what extent is official or not. We heard in the month of May, I believe, the interesting challenge and solutions in the in in Korea, in the Republic of Korea with Samsung Electronics on that. So the The redistribution is an important dimension to ensure that productivity gain ultimately create more job, more quality job, but also allow the business side to reinvest in innovation and their need for capital investment. So it's something that I do know, I have to say very clearly, Madam Pasquier. I'm very much aware about the concern that each group may have. And I think if we have a very good sit down and discussion, we could come up and find the right way forward on that.

Thank you, DG. Kathleen, over to you for your second question, please.

Thank you very much, Chair. DG, the current financial constraints are forcing the ILO to downsize We have already lost many colleagues with a lot of experience and institutional memory, and more will unfortunately leave in the upcoming months. Going forward, if re-elected, how are you going to ensure the ILO's financial sustainability and safeguard its independence while protecting the core mandate and technical expertise of this House? And very specifically, how would you ensure that there would be a solid dedicated space and sufficient resources for supporting fundamental principles and especially freedom of association and the right to collective bargaining, which now also includes clearly the right to strike, according to the ICJ, in your programme and budget going forward, noting that these are the least ratified and most violated fundamental principles and rights at work. Thank you.

Thank you very much. DG.

So many issues in that one question, Madam Basquiat. Let me try to unpack on them. First of all, the financial sustainability in a very cryptic way, let me say that with the current ongoing contingency measure, we know we'll go through our biennium until December, 2027 with or without clearance of arrears. I want to be very clear. So that put me into 28-29. And in 28-29, it is my intention, you may have seen it through my PGL, the program guidance letter. Clearly for the 28-29 programming, my intention is to ask if the board agrees that the assessed contribution remains at the same level as current biennium. with the commitment of the office to cap the expenditure at 75% and therefore creating a buffer of 25%. And with that, I am sure that if I still have ideas, I will not have to leave the current situation that I have today. Third part, beyond 28, 29, I need, we need to create a mechanism that minimize. We will never be able to get to risk zero in terms of unpaid contribution, but we need to minimize the risk by building some kind of a hedge fund that will help us absorb future shocks. And for that, I want, whether we call it a resilient fund, a revolving fund, we are working right now and we'll go to the GB in November with a specific agenda item of our proposal to set up this mechanism so that we can build the medium to long term. It's very clear to me that if you are calling me a second term, by 2032, I want to make sure that I have that reserve, that hedge fund that is sufficiently built and financed. The fundamental principle and rights at work, as I said, we have absolutely no choice and there should be no debate. They will remain at the core, and this is why it was interesting when I was reviewing the outcome of the DWCP review on that. And we found that the freedom of association and the collective bargaining, a few days ago, I think there was one article Kathleen, from Jeff Vock on the collective bargaining. I wouldn't say that I agree with him on all points, but there are some points that he was raising there, which for me are quite very valid, and I'm going to take that up. And one of it is, right now, if you see the work we are doing, we are doing it from no perspective, from fundamentals or in work. So you could see that is a little bit spread. We need to have a way to really coordinate that. And this is one of the reason that we also created that unit I referred to as the policy coherence under the office of the deputy director general. in terms of collective bargaining, I think we are doing fairly well in terms of research, in terms of statistics, and we have to continue that. I think it's important to bring also in the conclusion of the ISE on the social dialogue dimension in moving forward with the preservation of the expertise on the ground that I referred to. Hopefully, we will move forward. So I can assure you the fundamentals So, from right and right work, all of that for me will be preserved.

Thank you. Uh, Kathleen, the third question from the workers, please.

There in your reforms, you're putting a lot of emphasis on decentralization and bringing more functions and resources to the field where the ILO is functioning within a broader UN framework. However, workers' experience is that often tripartism and workers' rights are not adequately recognized nor addressed in the work of the UN at field level. Many governments and employers are also not keen to include standards and comments of the ILO supervisory system in country-level priorities. How would you address these challenges if re-elected?

Thank you. I should have touched on this when we were talking about the UNHAT at the ground. And, you know, already I'm very, very so pleasantly surprised about that. Already in the last 18 months, you could see that there are much more recognition of the role of ILO and the importance of embedding the respect of labor rights in our programs through our CEB and other discussions, which is one. As part of the UN area, you have this concept of the joint knowledge hubs, and this is where one of the opportunity that I want to use in moving forward as part of the country resets. What we want to do is to ensure that our regional offices, it's a very good example when I was in Bangkok with the ESCAP and our regional director there. using our regional offices and our DWTs to much more engage with the resident coordinator on that. And as you know, this idea of having common service, common offices, of course, as part of the UN system, I want to be part of it. But I always made it very clear in our discussion with a colleague from the UNAT last month, always making clear that for ILO, Unless our social partners, the role of our social partners on the ground are recognized, not only I cannot go ahead, but I also, I said that, I also suspect my board will not close their eyes on it. So this is a fundamental element that we will need to integrate in moving forward with the country office reset in the context of the UN. The other thing for us, again, I'm coming back to one of the big thing that I want to do on the second term in working more with IFI and the regional development banks, quite frankly. It is true that sometimes we have difficulties to be heard, to be listened to, when it comes to integrating the labour dimension in the national priorities. So we also, of course, we have to continue pushing for that, but we also need to use colleagues from the work we are doing with the regional development banks. which also have the entry point in the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry of Commerce, and the Prime Minister's higher office, and tend to use that as well. This is why, and a typical example I referred to earlier is the ongoing work that we are doing with the IMF in the whole fiscal space and how that can help either in social protection or other dimension.

Thank you very much. Kathleen, over to you. One more time, please.

Well, very last question, a point of great concern already for a long time for workers. In recent decades, globalization has led to an increase in cross-border supply chains with precarity of work rampant, especially in the lower tiers. This issue has been difficult to address in the ILO, with notably the employers group reluctant to take joint responsibility. If re-elected, what actions would you take in this important area? What role do you see for the tripartite M&E declaration? And how do you see in this regard the outcomes of the standard setting exercise on platform workers? If elected, re-elected, I should say, what would you do to promote its ratification? Thank you.

Thank you so much, Madam Pasquier. First of all, the supply chain, I would put it this way. Practically speaking, we know that we have a decision by you, board members, for us to implement the non-normative dimension of the option we put before you and come back to 2030 and then we'll take stock. And I think this is a way to go on that. Fundamentally, I believe the issue is very simple. The supply chains are crucial for economic growth, particularly for the low-income country, middle-income countries, and also for the markets on the northern or high-income countries, let's be honest. On the flip side, nobody wants to have a supply chain with child labor, forced labor, occupational safety and health issues. And the more I talk to some small businesses or CEOs, they're really looking also for help. At the same time, they also want to make sure that, you know, they have practical concern. How do you take responsibility for what is happening at the second level, third level of of the subcontracting in your supply chain. All of those are really, it's not a denial, a practical issue that I believe together we will get there. And yes, it's of course a cross-border issue now. So my point is that, again, I'm coming back to those experiences we have with a better work of this world. I remain positive that despite the different views you refer to between workers and the employers, I remain positive that the end result, we agree to it, having supply chain functioning at the same time, free from, or where you have the minimum respect for labor right and labor clauses. And again, when I was in in Bangkok, four ministers asked us, ILO, to work with them in how do we ensure that, okay, those minimum required labour clauses are respected without, I'm quoting the expression that was used to me, without killing the supply chain itself. Promotion of 193, we are already starting it in all my trips and mission and meeting already now. It's important to know that this is a landmark for us, ILO, viewed by other multilateral system in trying to come with a way to regulate the platform and the digital economy. At the same token, the very first thing that's going to be important is how do you bring the ratify or adopt 193 at the national level in encouraging, and first of all, if I were in the government, the very first thing that I want to do, of course, is a gap analysis. to have a gap analysis done and having a work plan of how I'm going to address this gap analysis. And that's where you will see us. And again, part of our budget 28, 29, that the ratification support dimension of the output, we should have that that there. Quickly, I hope I'm not running of time, the MNE declaration next year, I think is the 50th anniversary, is my intention to use that as an opportunity to see how together again, in a consensus way, we can use that to uplift the declaration and the sustainable enterprise on one hand, respect of the labor clauses on the other side. Thank you.

Thank you very much. And thank you very much, Kathleen, on behalf of the workers. We've now completed the question and answer part of the interview. DG, you now have a maximum of five minutes for any closing remarks you'd like to make.

Thank you so much, Chair, and thanks to all of you. As a closing remark, I just want to reiterate the direction that I'm taking. If elected for a second term, I want to make sure by 2032, I really position ALO as the reference when it comes to all the ongoing transformation. We talk a lot about AI, but we also have other transformation coming from impact from the climate change, the aging population, all those. So the position I look on that is one that we're focusing on the fundamental principle and that at work, productivity, skill development. And I will not say it enough the balance between economic growth, protection, and job creation. The importance for us to support the colleague on the ground and for the implementation of our core piece of standard, but also the technical expertise in bringing AI in building the labor administration and the data collection and others dimension that they are expecting from ILO. My last point is that the current financial situation forced all of us in the UN system to look for more effectiveness. And what I really like very challenging is not just a matter of cost cutting, we said it, it forces us to see where our intervention does matter. And that forces us to really go leaner without retreating in terms of our ambition. In the current global environment, ladies and gentlemen, I'm very much convinced that we need to build an ILO that remain clear in its fundamental values, at the same token, develop enough flexibility and agility to be able to respond and adjust to the future, that there are so many uncertainties today. that is important for us to have that agility, that flexibility, while keeping our values. And for that, and for need, the further we also divergence. Even if we take all our member state, they are so divergence of views on issues, then one will say we have the traditional, the dimensions of views between workers and employers. For all of that, you need a director general. That is a bridge builder, a director general that can bring all those people, all those groups, all those views together. A director general that needs, while it may not be neutral on some of the issues, needs to keep its responsibility as an impartial leader, a leader that is not just impartial, but that is also perceived as impartial. If we truly want our number one comparative advantage, I mean, our tripartism, to be effective, that is essential. And this is exactly what I want to offer again and repeat. Pragmatism, focus on results, and preparing ILO for the future. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Mr. Hungbo, for sharing your vision for the future of the ILO and for engaging with us so constructively. Colleagues, we're now going to take a short break of approximately eight minutes. So we'll come back here at 4 o'clock on the dot. See you then.