Women, Peace, Justice and National Reconciliation in Afghanistan

Excellencies, distinguished guests, dear colleagues and friends, good afternoon and welcome. On behalf of the Permanent Mission of Afghanistan to the United Nations, it is my pleasure to welcome you to today's high-level side event on women, peace, justice and national reconciliation in Afghanistan. I would like to express our sincere appreciation to our co-organizers, the Afghanistan Policy Lab at Princeton University, the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace, and Security, the Afghanistan Justice Archive, and Gender Apartheid Campaign. I also warmly welcome Her Excellency Doris Schmidr, First Lady of Austria, to this meeting. and also His Excellency Carlos Arthur Hoyos, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs of Panama, who is on his way. He will be joining us soon. Our distinguished keynote speaker, former Prime Minister Catherine Joxe-Doetter, Ambassador Marlene Verveer, our distinguished Afghan panelists, Professor Ode Offer, our moderator, representatives of member states, and civil society, and all of you joining us today, and also those who are watching our meeting online. Excellencies, five years after the Taliban's military return to power, Afghanistan continues to face profound political, humanitarian, economic, social, and human rights challenges. Despite continued diplomatic engagement through various international mechanisms, a durable, just, and inclusive political settlement remains elusive. At the heart of challenges is the place of Afghan women in the future of their country. For five years, Afghan women and girls have faced systematic exclusion from education, employment, and public life. Yet, they continue to resist exclusion, sustain communities, support education, defend fundamental rights, and advocate for a different future. The question of Afghanistan cannot be reduced solely to humanitarian concerns or even to the reopening of girls' school, important as these issues are. The challenge is much deeper and requires a comprehensive and holistic approach. Current efforts have yet to establish a tangible and accountable pathway through which the people of Afghanistan can exercise their political will and shape their country's future with dignity. We therefore need to change the way the international community speaks about Afghan women. They must not be viewed only as victims in the need of protection. They are political stakeholders They are leaders and they must participate directly and meaningfully in shaping any future political process concerning Afghanistan. Women's participation cannot be reduced to symbolic representation or parallel consultations disconnected from the main political process. If Afghanistan is to move forward, a legitimate and durable political settlement, women must be at the table where decisions are made. We already have important international legal and political frameworks including Security Council Resolution 1325 and broader women, peace and security agenda, CEDAW and other relevant United Nations resolutions and instruments. The challenge is not only the absence of commitments, it is the gap between those commitments and their implementation. But inclusion alone is also not enough. Afghanistan needs a comprehensive and sustainable political solution. That requires a serious discussion about how justice, accountability, acknowledgement of victims, dialogue, and national reconciliation can reinforce one another rather than being treated as competing objectives. That is one of the main reasons we have brought these themes together today. women, peace, justice, national reconciliation because they are inseparable. There can be no credible reconciliation if half of the population is excluded. There can be no sustainable political settlement without justice and accountability and there can be no durable peace if people of Afghanistan themselves do not have a meaningful role in determining the political future of their country. Today we hope to focus not only on what has gone wrong, but also on what a credible path forward could look like. How can Afghan women participate as political actors rather than observers? How can the voices of victims, youth, civil society, and Afghanistan's diverse political, ethnic, and religious communities be reflected in a future political process? How can accountability and national reconciliation be pursued together? And how can the United Nations, member states, and regional partners help create conditions for an inclusive, Afghan-owned, Afghan-led political process? These are among central questions we hope to explore today. For the permanent mission of Afghanistan, one principle remains fundamental. Afghanistan's future must ultimately be determined by its people. The Taliban are not only Afghan stakeholders, nor can they alone represent the diversity and aspirations of the Afghan people. No political arrangement can be sustainable if it is imposed through force, exclusion, or fear. And no international process concerning Afghanistan can be credible if Afghans, particularly women, are excluded from shaping its direction. Our task today is therefore to consider how we can help create the political space, international support, and conditions necessary for Afghans themselves to build a more peaceful, just, inclusive, and legitimate future. I hope today's discussion will help us move in this direction. Thank you again for being with us, and I look forward to a substantive and constructive conversation. And now it's my honor to invite our co-organizer, Ambassador Adela Raz. from from Afghanistan Policy Lab, Princeton University, to deliver her opening remarks. Ambassador.

Thank you, Ambassador Faig, for giving me the floor. Excellencies, distinguished guests, colleagues and friends. Thank you for being here today. On behalf of the Afghanistan Policy Lab at Princeton School of Public and International Affairs, I want to express my sincere appreciation to our co-organizers, the Permanent Mission of Afghanistan to the United Nations, the Afghanistan Justice Archive and End Gender Apartheid Campaign, and the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace, and Security for their partnership and helping us to bring this important conversation together. For me, speaking about Afghanistan in this room is not simply a professional responsibility. It is deeply personal as well. I grew up in Kabul. I grew up knowing what it mean for violence to shape ordinary life, hearing rockets, seeing fear become part of childhood, hearing and understanding what terrible and difficult situation means for young kids. And most importantly, what really peace meant more than the absence of fighting, it meant being able to go to school, It meant having a future, and it meant having a voice in decisions about our own life and our own country. After years of working on Afghanistan as a diplomat, policymaker, and now through APL at SPIA, I have come to believe that one of the most important questions we need to ask is not simply, "How do we end conflict?" It is, What kind of peace are we trying to build and for whom? Five years after Taliban returned to power, Afghanistan may be quieter in some respect, but the reduction in violence alone does not constitute peace. Sustainable peace requires justice. It requires dignity and the rule of law and protection for all and every citizen, regardless of their gender or ethnicity. accountable institutions, and the ability of people to meaningfully shape their country's future. This is especially important when we speak about Afghan women. I have spent much of my professional life in the rooms where decisions about Afghanistan were being made. One lesson has become very clear to me. Afghan women, as Ambassador Fayek said, simply cannot be the subject of policies. They must help shape those policies and the political future of their country. Afghan women cannot be treated as victims only. They are political actors, as we all know. They are leaders, they are educators, they are community organizers, they are advocates and peace builders. Even under very extraordinary restrictions, They continue to advocate for the rights and aspiration of all Afghan people. So meaningful participation cannot mean simply inviting women into parallel consultations after the important decisions have been already made. Being heard is not the same as having influence. And this brings us to justice. Afghanistan has endured decades of conflict. displacement, political exclusion, atrocities, and unresolved grievances. These experiences do not disappear when the fighting becomes quieter. They remain within the families, they remain within the communities, and they become a painful collective memory of the entire society. There is often a perception that justice must wait for peace. that accountability makes reconciliation more difficult. I believe we need to challenge that assumption. For those who have suffered, justice is part of peace. Acknowledgement is part of healing, and reconciliation cannot mean asking victims and survivors to simply move on without recognition of what they have experienced. Therefore, the question before us as is not whether Afghanistan needs peace or justice. It needs both. Today, I hope we can move from describing these challenges to thinking very concretely about what comes next. What would an inclusive political future look like for all Afghans, including women and youth? What does meaningful participation by women actually require? And how can justice and accountability contribute to reconciliation and social trust? And what can the United Nations, member states, regional actors, and international partners do differently to support that future where women are part of it? There are difficult questions, and these are not easy ones to answer, but they are the questions that we cannot afford anymore to postpone. Let me close by thanking our distinguished speakers for joining us today. Each brings a unique perspective and experience to this conversation. From education and women's right to peacebuilding, from political participation, from justice and accountability, and international leadership on women, peace, and security. I'm particularly grateful for our today's moderator, Professor Odey, offer to have made the time to be here and to lead what I hope will be a candid and substantive discussion. Thanks to our keynote speakers. for leading their voices and expertise to this important cause and conversation. And of course, thanks to all of you for being here today. I look forward to hearing everyone's perspective, and I thank you.

Thank you, Ambassador Raz. And now I think everybody has the concept, the agenda, and it's our honor to invite His Excellency, Deputy Foreign Minister of Panama, Mr. Carlos Arthur Hoyos, to deliver his remarks. Please, Excellency.

Thank you, Ambassador. Excellencies, distinguished participants, Panama is honored to participate in this important discussion on Afghanistan. Let me thank the organizers, the Permanent Mission of Afghanistan, the Afghanistan Policy Lab at Princeton University, the Afghanistan Justice Archive, the End Gender Apartheid Campaign, and the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace, and Security for convening this timely discussion. For Panama, human rights and peace are inseparable. Our foreign policy has long been grounded in the protection of fundamental freedoms, building bridges for dialogue, and the conviction that international peace requires respect for human rights and human dignity. Afghanistan brings these principles into sharp focus. Five years after the Taliban's return to power, women and girls continue to face systematic exclusion from public, political, and social life. This is both a human rights concern and a profound challenge to Afghanistan's prospect for peace and national reconciliation. A political process cannot claim to speak of Afghanistan's future while excluding Afghan women from the decisions that will shape it. This is a principle that Panama has carried into the work of the Security Council. As coordinator in 2026 of the Council's shared commitments on women, peace and security, we have consistently emphasized that women must participate meaningfully in political processes mediation efforts, and decision-making. Afghanistan reminds us why this agenda matters. Meaningful participation of women cannot be treated as an accessory to peace processes. It must be part of their political substance. In June, the Council renewed the mandate of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan for another year through our resolution 2822, preserving the mission's political, human rights, and good offices functions at a critical juncture. For Panama, these decisions are not simply about maintaining a UN presence. UNAMA provides an essential space for dialogue, engagement with Afghan society, human rights monitoring, and efforts towards a more inclusive political process. In this regard, we have welcomed the appointment of Ms. Rabab Fatima as the new Special Representative of the Secretary-General for Afghanistan and head of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan. We hope that her leadership will strengthen dialogue and support progress toward a more inclusive political process. Justice and accountability must also be a pivotal part of national reconciliation efforts. Civil societies must have a meaningful place in the national conversation and the experiences of Afghanistan's communities must inform any credible effort toward reconciliation. A political settlement that leaves these questions unresolved risks reproducing the very same fractures it seeks to address. The international community must remain engaged with Afghanistan while making clear that engagement cannot come at the expense of bypassing fundamental rights. Dialogue remains necessary, but it cannot be pursued at the cost of the principles that should guide our engagement. Afghanistan also continues to face serious humanitarian and economic pressures, including displacement, large-scale returns, and economic hardship. Sustained international engagement is therefore essential to respond to immediate needs, preserve dialogue, and create conditions for longer term progress. As was said before me, we cannot move merely towards describing the problem, we must move to really address it by engaging. Panama's engagement and commitment on women, peace, and security reflects a broader vision. Peace, human rights, fundamental freedoms, and human dignity must advance hand in hand. They are inseparable, part of the same pillar of society. Afghanistan is a particularly stark reminder that these principles are not peripheral to questions of peace and security. They are at their core. Thank you.

Thank you, Excellency, Deputy Foreign Minister Hoyos, for very strong commitments and also for the principled support in the Security Council for the UNAMOS resolution, and particularly for women and girls' rights and for the people of Afghanistan. We are so much grateful and we see what really commitments mean when they are really translated into actions. And before the Security Council meeting, there was a very strong statement of the signatories of WPS and Panama was one of the strong supporters. We are so much grateful. Thank you. And now we will move based on the agenda. We have, of course, a keynote speaker and her Excellency, former Prime Minister of Iceland. She's on her way. But as we will move to the panel discussion. So I will now invite Professor of Ode Offer. He's our moderator and Professor offer is a lecture of public and international affairs at Princeton University, where he also serves as the founding director of the Policy Advocacy Clinic. And his work focuses on civil rights, constitutional law, criminal jurisdiction reform, and with extensive experience and knowledge in international law and international relations. So all the bios are in the concept note. Without further ado, I hand over the floor to Professor Offer, please?

Thank you. It is a tremendous honor to be here today. And I think we're already off to a wonderful start. I want to thank everyone for their opening remarks, the many host organizations, and in particular, the Permanent Mission of Afghanistan to the United Nations and the Afghanistan Policy Lab at Princeton University. So I think you could already tell that a theme has developed. with this session, and it's a theme that will stay with us throughout the panel discussion. And that is a very simple proposition, but one that we're really going to dig into and try to bring to life. And the proposition being that peace cannot be measured solely by the absence of large-scale armed conflict. That is the proposition, right? Because we have stakeholders who will say, you know, the job is done. There is peace and we will have many other stakeholders who will say that is nowhere true. As already been mentioned, it's been five years since the Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan. And while it is true, the nationwide armed conflict has been reduced, Afghanistan continues to face profound challenges in the political space, economic space, and certainly in human rights challenges. And as we will make the case and discuss today, a durable peace means more than reduction of armed conflict. It means a respect for rules, for the rule of law, for human rights, for accountability, and for meaningful opportunities for people to participate in shaping their own country's future. And as I've already been mentioned, and it will be the fundamental theme of this discussion, Nowhere is this clearer than in the exclusion of women in Afghanistan from political and public life. Since returning to power in August of 2021, the Taliban have issued more than 100 decrees restricting the fundamental rights of women and girls and affecting the lives of more than 20 million people. But it's already been said it will be wrong for us to leave here today and think of Afghan women as victims in need of protection or as beneficiaries of decisions made by others. As has been mentioned, Afghan women are political stakeholders. They are educators, advocates, peace builders, and their participation in the future political process cannot be merely symbolic, but it must be at the core of such process. It must be full, it must be equal, it must be meaningful, and it must be safe. So our purpose today is not simply to talk about everything that's gone wrong, because there's a lot to talk about what's gone wrong, but it's to consider what would an inclusive Afghan-owned political process look like? And what is the role of the United Nations, where we sit today, its member states, and we're honored to have some of the member states here, and international partners, what can they do now to help create the conditions for such a process? So we're fortunate to have a panel of a much smarter people than I am and of experts today who I think are going to add a lot to this discussion. So let me do quick introductions and then we'll dive right in. Mitra Alakazi is the executive director of Sahar Education and Women's Rights Leader, whose work connects education, gender equality, civic participation and community based programing inside Afghanistan. Farishta Saki. is an Afghanistan Policy Lab affiliate and president of Global Resilience. She brings more than two decades of experience in peacebuilding, governance, transitional justice, and the protection of human rights defenders. Mushtaq Rahim is a peacebuilding and development practitioner who has worked with the Afghan government, the United Nations, and international organizations in conflict-affected settings. His experience includes senior roles in Afghanistan's peace architecture and extensive work on institution building and peace process design. Ambassador Milanovic is executive director of the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace and Security and served as the first United States ambassador for global women's issues. She brings a comparative and global perspective on when women's participation in peace process meaningfully changes outcomes. And Mehran is the founder of Afghanistan Justice Archive and a policy advisor to the End Gender Apartheid campaign. Her work documents Taliban decrees and their consequences for women's lives while advancing international recognition and accountability for gender apartheid. And as was already mentioned, our panel, following our panel will be keynote remarks from a former prime minister of Iceland. But to begin, I want to ask each panelist a question. on the international community. And that is, in your view, what is the single most important reality missing from the international community's current discussion on the situation in Afghanistan? And we will begin with Ms. Alakazi.

Thank you, Professor Alpher. Distinguished guests and colleagues, thank you so much for being here and for caring about the topic, to make a presence here and take action. I think one reality that we still face to fully confront is that the exclusion of Afghan women and girls from the political and public spaces is not just a women's rights issue. It is one of the central political questions that shapes the future of Afghanistan. And too often, Afghan women are discussed as population to protect, to save, rather than as political stakeholders who should be present in conversations that shape the future of the country. And I think that distinction matters because when women and girls are systematically removed from politics and from public life, we're not only talking about individual rights that are being violated, we are changing who gets to participate in shaping the future of the country and who gets to define the country itself. It's more about who gets to speak, who gets to make decisions, whose experiences are represented, And whose vision of Afghanistan gets to count? Those are all political questions. Yet, Afghan women's participation is still being advocated for alongside the bigger picture of Afghanistan, while women's affairs should be one of the core topics of the future of Afghanistan. And I think we need to change that framing. Afghan women should not only be discussed in terms of what's happening to them, but they should be acknowledged for their role that they can play in shaping the future of the country. And the longer women are absent from political discussions, from decision making spaces, and from public life, the longer we are making the cycle last. So for me, the missing reality is very simple. Afghan women are not constituency on the margins of Afghanistan's future. They are political stakeholders who should have space and who should be actively and meaningfully engaged in any decision that is being made about Afghanistan. Any conversation about Afghanistan that treats their participation as optional is starting from the wrong premise in the first place. There cannot be a credible vision for Afghanistan if the future of Afghanistan is dependent on the permanent exclusion of half of its society.

Thank you. Ms. Saki. Yes.

Thank you very much, Professor Odeh, for your question. Well, it's an honor to be here today, and thank you very much, Afghanistan Policy Lab and Afghanistan Permanent Mission to the United Nations and co-organizers for this very timely session. In terms of the question, one of the key things I face is missing from the international agenda is this transformation of Afghan society, which under the current phase of complete structural violence and also oppression. We are totally putting a blind eye and not observing what is happening to women, to girls, who are being stripped of their basic and fundamental rights for the last five years. We only consider that women and girls are not going to education or they don't have access to health or their public services. But what we are not including as part of the agenda is how these are impacting women in the longer term, how these all restrictions and operations are kind of creating an environment where we are losing the human capital, where the condition of mothers, children, Young girls in Afghanistan is so dire that we have a lot of like cases of early childhood marriages. We have significant. We have serious situations, especially indicated in UN Special Rapporteur reports, in terms of physical health and mental health of women. Many of women and girls are at the verge of collapse. They are constantly losing their mental health, their physical health, and this has serious repercussions on future generations. We cannot contain these impacts or these effects only to this generation. Unfortunately, they are transferring to the next generations, and they are creating an environment where violence, not only at the public level, but also at the domestic level, is being normalized. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a situation where bullets are not being fired, where a situation of negative peace persists, but when we talk about positive peace, which includes key features of inclusion, this is absolutely missing. And in this environment, we are kind of giving more room towards deepening the divide between Afghan society. We are deepening the divides between urban and rural population, between Afghans inside and outside Afghanistan. And we are making it normalized for youth, for genzies to perpetuate violence at the community level, at the level. Unfortunately, there are many, many reports that shows Afghanistan is falling into this whole phase of radicalization. And if we don't pay attention towards making the environment safe for women, opening the spaces for women, allowing girls to go to school, to have their fundamental rights. Unfortunately, we are pushing an entire generation towards radicalization, extremism, and an environment where violence is justified, where violence is the only means. So I I would like to use this platform and highlight that what's missing completely is this bigger framework, is this bigger picture of where Afghanistan exists, not only today, but in future, because we are excluding the complete population. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Saki. Mr. Rahim, what is the international community missing right now?

Thank you very much to everyone for turning in and joining us today for this very important debate, because one of the things that was a sort of deja vu sort of feeling for us back on August 15, 2021 has materialized over the last five years. And that is something that we are experiencing for the third time. At the height of the Cold War, Afghanistan tried to engage with the West to balance between East and the West bloc. and Afghanistan was ignored and left alone, and that brought a catastrophe on the nation. And then we had another similar situation where Geneva Accords was signed, the Russians left Afghanistan and the world turned its back on Afghanistan, and we all saw what happened during the '90s in Afghanistan and afterwards. But people only remembered afterwards, that is the 9/11. But before that, there was a catastrophic situation that a whole nation faced, and again today, The world has turned its back on Afghanistan, and the whole focus is regime-centric. It's talk about isolation, it's talk about engagement, it's talk about legitimization or delegitimization, undermining a whole nation, a society. So what the world is missing is that they are more concentrated and focused on the regime rather than a society that has not frozen on August 15, 2021, but is evolving, that is producing a younger generation, as Ms. Sakhi said, that is joining the job market and that does not have an opportunity to engage. And the isolation. one of the indicators that I can materially exemplify. In Afghanistan, Afghans, women are deprived of education and men are getting substandard education. But then they had very small little opportunities across the globe in the form of Fulbright scholarship in the US, Chevening scholarship in England. And the world says, well, we don't recognize the Taliban, so Afghans, stay there where you are. So what I'm trying to tell you is that turning a blind eye on Afghanistan, only and only looking at Afghanistan from a very narrow corridor of the regime-centric attitude that we are experiencing, and then ignoring a whole society that is heading into a disaster, where it's faced with economic catastrophe, facing world's second largest humanitarian crisis, and then deprived of very little opportunities that were available across the globe. That is what is missing, ignoring the realities of a society. And going by the experiences of the first two episodes that I described at the beginning of my talk, I hope we don't repeat the same sort of disasters in the future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Raheem. Ambassador Revere, what is the international community missing?

Well, thank you very much. And let me just say up front, it's always very reassuring to be back with Ambassador Ross and with the permanent mission of Afghanistan and with all of you. And I look particularly at my sisters on the panel who are always so eloquent in in stating what needs to be stated. I think what's missing is from the international community is a fundamental misunderstanding of what is fundamental to engagement with Afghanistan. Dealing with the Taliban is not the same as support for Afghan people, to support Afghan-led organizations in ways that they are telling us that support is required, and we've heard some of that already. Afghan-led, I think, is key to a consideration. Secondly, any engagement with the Taliban, and there are reasons to be engaged, and I think this is one of the critical issues. How does legitimate engagement not lead to normalization and ultimately recognition of the Taliban and what they represent? So we've heard that there are so many critical challenges in Afghanistan today. a very severe humanitarian crisis, hunger, people experiencing the worst climate disasters. And it's wonderful that Prashita is here because few people understand that Afghanistan is one of the most of 13 countries most vulnerable to climate change. Afghanistan is on that list in a significant way. And the scarcity of water and what that is doing to livelihoods is rarely talked about. That's a reality in Afghanistan, where the international community could be making a difference. And what this is doing is also justifying in some ways the lack of the international financial support that is critically needed because we're not looking at the real problems and who should be deciding the solutions of those problems. And so engaging with the Taliban must not allow the systematic repression and exclusion of half of its population to be normalized. I think this is absolutely fundamental and is not central to much of what the international engagement is manifesting today and much of what you've already heard about. The reality of women's lives, it is worse to be a woman in Afghanistan today than any place in the world. their lives are regulated in every way imaginable. The criminal code makes punishments for abusing animals higher than affecting what is affecting women. The decrees cover everything from barring an education, which is nowhere the case anywhere else in the world, to enjoying a public park. to raising your voice on the outside. This is fundamental to human life, and it cannot be allowed to be normalized. I found it distressing, as did so many of the Afghans with whom I work, to recently have the European Union meet with the Taliban, admittedly on deportations, which is another serious crisis, as some officials in my own government have said, things are wonderful in Afghanistan today. There is no reason not to send Afghans back. This is a really serious problem. And so I am told that several of the members of the EU encouraged the leadership of the EU to have this meeting. It was a purely transactional meeting. but it was vested in the Taliban with no other kinds of representation, no other voice. Another country in Europe has opened its representational offices in two major cities, again as a quid pro quo on a deal on deportations. The UN itself established what's called a mosaic process or the Doha talks. The international community join those talks. The Taliban were their counterparts. That's with whom they discussed. There were no Afghan women in those discussions. And when I raised it with one of the key UN officials, the response was, Well, they were discussing economics. They were discussing trade as though that doesn't affect women and their voices should not be heard in those decisions. And they're not going to be affected by the decisions that get made. So that missing reality, the centrality of these issues is really, I think, affecting very seriously what we're all witnessing. The UN, I just want to finish here, the UN has referred to the Taliban now as relevant authorities. It used to be that it was de facto authorities. Now it's relevant authorities. I worry, as do many of you, what this represents. Diplow speak, dialogue, cooperation, transactional, these are fine. but but the fundamental principles have to be there and the Taliban are doing their best today to come across as normal in all of their relationships the messages that they're putting out so to me engagement needs to be principled it needs to be grounded in accountability it needs to have clear conditions attached to it that reality is missing from this engagement today.

Thank you, Ambassador. Thank you, Ambassador. Ms. Mehran, what is the international community missing?

So I think the main thing here that can cover everything that my sisters and colleagues and friends talk about today is the intergenerational impacts of what's happening in Afghanistan. how it is a totalizing system of oppression impacting all aspects of women's life, including education, diplomatic engagement, employment, not only for women of Afghanistan, but also how that shape the framework of the governing strategy of Taliban as a system. And what's missing in international law that we want to get it codified and defined within is The framework that can encompass and explain what's happening in Afghanistan, and that is gender apartheid. So women of Afghanistan since 1996, when they were living under the first regime of Taliban, called on international community to recognize the totalizing operation of Taliban as gender apartheid. It didn't happen then. And then they are reliving it again. And what they are calling is for codification of gender apartheid. And that's what I call everyone in this room too. So there are a few issues about that, and I think which helps us and relevant particularly to this discussion. One is how what's happening in Afghanistan is very connected to the to what's happening globally, and that is we are not seeing justice and accountability for the women of Afghanistan internally, but also when we are trying to put our faith in international system, international system is failing us too. And that's because international law is not being utilized and used for the purpose it needs to serve. So when we are in UNGA and reflecting what global leaders can do is the all the commitments, international law and global leaders and international community has to women all over the world can be tested if it is delivered to the women of Afghanistan or not, because we are the distinct case where discrimination is legal and formalized and women are being prosecuted without any accountability and justice. So when we speak about gender apartheid, it's not about one or two right being denied or violated. It's about every right that we are entitled to as human beings are banned and violated within within Afghanistan. And that's why it is important when my colleagues spoke about the engagement, it's important that we codify gender apartheid to define what diplomatic engagement means. Because for me as an activist, it's not only about keeping the Taliban accountable, but it's also about international community accountable toward their ethical and legal obligations toward women of Afghanistan. And that's, I think, when we talk about justice and reconciliation, It's not about it's not only our job because everything that we believe from. Gender persecution to apartheid to slavery. To caste system is formalized and legalized by the Taliban inside Afghanistan, and we as a global community. Have said together. When there are crimes and atrocities. that shape conscience of humanity, we get together as a global community and say no to it. Women of Afghanistan are trying to utilize it to bring a solution to their situation and asking international community to stand by them in implementing and enforcing and responding to their call by enforcing and implementing international law. And that's what I really hope to see coming from different states, and I hope that be part of the discussion of global leaders this week in New York.

Thank you so much. Thank you. We're going to shift back now to Ms. Alokazi. You work really closely on education and community-based programs affecting women and girls. Help us understand how does a denial of an education to women and girls in Afghanistan not only impact them, but impacts the entire nation. And to be honest, the global community when it comes to foundations for peace, for economic prosperity and for social.

Trust. Thank you. This question to me is not abstract and also very personal because as an Afghan woman raised in Afghanistan, education has played a key role in who I am today and The fact that I have the privilege of being here among my distinguished colleagues and you all is because I had an opportunity to get an education. And through my work today, I contribute back to the education of other girls and women. Now, think about all the other women in Afghanistan who could have had this opportunity to contribute back, to give back, and to be part of that change in Afghanistan. How many more girls could have been educated? We talk about education as a fundamental human right, and of course there's no denial of that, but I also want to see education as a basic infrastructure of a society, a functioning and healthy society. When girls are systematically and denied from getting an education, that effect doesn't only stop in classrooms, and we see that every day with our work, in our work with Afghan girls and women. It translates into families, into communities, the society, the country, and the world, because one less doctor means many more female patients who are going to die. It's going to include many more children who will not get the care they could have gotten at the time of birth and those missing lives. And of course, impact the impacts it has had on the economy of Afghanistan is very much visible. It is a whole. generation of women that we are keeping away from the workforce, from the economic contribution they could have made. The girls who are going to get educated today are going to contribute financially to the economics of their families, their communities, and to the country. And that's what we are taking away, not only from the women themselves, but from the country, the whole of the country. And the UN Women has estimated that the continued social and economic denial and exclusion of women could cost Afghanistan done roughly between $920 million between 2024 and 2026. For a country that's already in an economic crisis, that's already, that's population is already dealing with acute hunger. That amount is astonishing. It's it's mind blowing and it's even hard to fathom the impact that that amount can have in a country that's starving. And that is very important to note here. Moving on from the economic impacts that it has had, one thing I see the most among the girls that I work with is the social and the psychological impact that it has had on women. I recently talked to a family who reached out to me about their daughter who's stuck in Afghanistan. And this might make me a little emotional because this is not one story. This is so many, but we only get to hear only a few of them. The family is here in the US. They were evacuated after the incident of 2021, and their daughter was left behind after the explosion at the Kabul airport. The girl is now 16 years old and when she was left behind, she was only 11. She has had to spend her years without her family besides her and she was suffering from extreme depression. They had tried different ways to bring her to the United States to unite with the family, but all efforts had failed and thanks to the immigration policies in place today, the girl has had to be in Afghanistan and there is no way forward, at least not in the near future, where the family can get her here in the US. She attempted committing suicide last year. Luckily, she survived the attempt. She is learning how to walk again without her family next to her. She jumped off of a six-story building. That's the psychological impact we're talking about. And it's happening to more girls than we know of. And what happens when a generation of women are told that they do not belong in the public life, they do not belong in the political sphere, they do not belong in their own communities and their own families, and they don't get to voice their concerns and their agency in these spaces? Of course, when it comes to the topic of social trust, How do you trust an institution that tells you you're not part of them, that tells you you're not significant enough, that your voice does not matter? And these consequences are going to last more than the current political moment that we are in. It's going to go far and beyond this moment, and it's going to continue to impact generations of women. And that to me is alarming, and it should be to all of us here and to everyone else who has a heart that has a sane mind and who is committed to human's rights. So the question of how it's impacting the long-term peace and stability of the world, of course, directly impacting it in a negative way because we are taking away the ability from humans who have a say, who are part of this peace building, the peace that's going to be built in Afghanistan, anywhere in the world, is going to directly impact these women. They're part of the society and as Ambassador Verwer mentioned earlier, When it comes to the matter of economics, to the matter of politics, women are seen as insignificant, as if they're not part of that conversation. But women have been and will continue to remain an important and integral part of any peace building process and any long-term peace that's meant to be built anywhere. I just want to quickly end by saying that Afghanistan remains the only country where women and girls are officially banned from any form of education beyond secondary education. And UNESCO estimates that 2.4 million women are out of school. And each year with girls who graduate from sixth grade and do not have a way forward, we add hundreds of thousands to that number and we have already added hundreds of thousands to that number. And I hope that these numbers are not only numbers, I hope we see them as actual human beings actual women who are suffering from not only the impact of these policies, but also the impact of not being able to meaningfully participate in the decisions that are made for them and for their countries that they're very well part of. Thank you.

Thank you, thank you. Thank you for grounding us. So Misaki, help us now think about what does actual full participation for Afghan women look like? What would it look like in practice? Help us build that picture.

Thank you very much, Professor Rodi. The first thing we have to, I think I have to repeat and we have to all acknowledge that women of Afghanistan are not the recipients of protection only. They are the agents of peace. They are the real mediators on the ground. They make the real negotiation possible. So they need the full support and full protection as they are reinstating this role. So their role is integral, not only just as a recipient of the peace policies, but shaping the peace process, putting forward the path for peaceful Afghanistan and ensuring that all diverse voices, all ethnic, religious, urban, rural populations are presented. Even we are now adding another layer to this group of -- to this diversity, which is women inside Afghanistan and women outside Afghanistan in exile, in diaspora, unfortunately. So This is the key principle with which we can move forward. They are the integral part and they are the agents of peace and they can ensure if their meaningful participation is not ensured, the peace process is non-sustainable, it's not enduring. That's first thing. The second thing we need to also recognize that women should not be only included in women and girls issues. They should be an integral part of all political processes, including governance, including security, as we are constantly working on climate and environmental crises, economic affairs, regional cooperations. These are all important topics, and women should be leading these agendas. We should also understand that a huge population of Afghan women are currently inside Afghanistan in the remote areas are building peace, ensuring that communities stay resilient in the face of current crises. We should continue supporting, strengthening, supporting those voices, those efforts on the ground with all support needed. We should also, as supporters of Afghan women, ensure that representatives should be diverse. It's a diverse country with different ethnic groups, religious groups. We should ensure that women participation is diverse across political realm, civil society, the young Gen Z population emerging. They are the new hope for Afghanistan and women who are currently facing the climate and the fragility and conflict crisis on the ground. And my last, I know I'm just running out of time. The peace processes should be measurable. The participation should have clear, distinct indicators where we should see that women have influenced the process. They are not sitting and just present in the meeting, but their decisions are influencing the decisions, the political roadmap of the country, and these are changing into actionable, practical steps. And my final point is Women need protection. Those who are participating in international fora, those who are speaking on behalf of other women on the ground, they need digital security, physical security. They should not be penalized for being the voice of women in the peace processes. Thank you.

Incredibly powerful. Thank you. Mr. Raheem, I would like for you to dig even deeper here. So if you were designing a credible and inclusive political process today, who would need to participate and what would that look like?

I would rather go a step backwards, start somewhere even before where I start designing a process. And that is that, you know, the Afghans have not resigned in front of the autocratic, totalitarian regime. and the Afghan civil society, the political polity, and the Afghan women are standing up to the challenge. There are numerous groups, informal groups, regularly coming together on informal forums every day and every week and every month talking about Afghanistan and discussing the issues that the country is facing and discussing the future, political future of the country. We talked about women. I was talking to one of the Afghan women's female doctor who leads the project in Kandahar. And I was talking to her and I asked her, are you based in Kandahar implementing the project? And she said, yes, I'm based in And then I asked her, how do you manage it? She said she doesn't go to the office, but then she was managing a project that was delivering public health and reproductive health services to the places which did not have a basic health clinic over the last 20 years. So what I'm trying to tell you is there are many, many movements that are taking place in Afghanistan and outside Afghanistan where the people are resisting socially, politically, and economically for their rights. There is a national dialogue going on. They had over 20 meetings across Europe, US and Australia. One group that I know and I participated in one of these sessions last month. So there are movements. taking place, but the only missing link is that there is no sort of umbrella arrangement that could bring together, could mobilize these voices and galvanize them together and turn them into a political force that can influence the decision making inside and outside Afghanistan. I can assure you that even inside Afghanistan, there is political struggle going on, but the missing link again is the umbrella. And if I were to organize such sort of political system, I would provide that umbrella to these different groups, bringing them together, mobilizing them, engaging them in discussion, discussing the political agenda for Afghanistan. And the outcome that I'm expecting to achieve out of that is that come the day when they are able to contribute, make and impact be part of the decision making, we won't end up in a situation where Afghanistan ended up in October 2001 at Bonn, where we had political power sharing amongst a few. This will bring the real grassroot Afghan leadership to the table. So the effort that needs to be done is that we really invest into these small, tiny political movements inside and outside Afghanistan. The United Nations, unfortunately, of course, they have their own reasons, that is that they have to pursue their humanitarian agenda. And for that purpose, they have to keep the political agenda frozen outside their mandate. But now is the time to really support the political effort of the Afghans outside and inside Afghanistan, bring them together, make them a strong, wise, political voice that can influence the decision making. Thank you.

Great, thank you. Ambassador Raveer, we're gonna shift to you now and we would love to use your wisdom. Tell us how does comparative evidence from other peace processes educate us and tell us about the conditions under which women's participation actually changes outcomes so we can take those lessons and help shape international engagement with Afghanistan?

- Well, Let me say that I've spent the better part of 20 plus years listening to Afghan women, trying to advocate their priorities with officials in my own government and in the previous Afghan government and beyond. And what sticks in my mind very significantly is the conversation one day in Kabul, my first trip, when an Afghan woman said to me, stop looking at us as victims and look at us as the leaders that we are. And I think a terrible price has been paid in this history of divorce of Afghan women's extraordinary leadership and potential and counting them out in high-level meetings, from high-level meetings and participating in all kinds of peace talks and economic decision-making, keeping them from the table and viewing them their participation as marginal and not somehow significant to the centrality of issues. And what we see from countless studies, there was an analysis of 40 peace processes since the end of World War II. When women were at the table and meaningfully engaged in the decision making, influencing negotiations, an agreement was reached sooner, And those agreements last much longer. They contribute to sustainable peace. Look at Northern Ireland. The women weren't meant to be at the peace table to end that crisis in their country between elements of their society. And for years, finally, a peace agreement was-- peace talks were forged. And the creators wanted everybody to be at the table, but they were mostly thinking of the extreme male organizations. The women heard about this and said, well, we are a political party. They were a women's coalition of grassroots women operators. Why aren't we at the table? And they qualified. And what difference did they make? They put issues on the table that ordinarily wouldn't have been there, because they took that experience of the lives of their society, on the ground experience, in education, in economic issues, in crossing divisions, in bringing minority rights to the fore, that ordinarily wouldn't have happened. And that agreement, it's had many hiccups in 30 years. but the peace has been sustained. And today, the two leaders in Northern Ireland are women, first leader and second leader of the two areas. In Colombia, for example, the rebel groups, the paramilitaries, the government, 50 years of civil war in that country. The agreement that was forged, it has not been completely realized. But the victims were put forward in terms of what happened to the women in that society. Testimony from all sides of the women who were impacted. They were at the center of the process, the issues of truth and reconciliation, amnesty for violence, crimes against women and crimes against humanity were denied amnesty. and they were central to truth and justice. Again, that participation brought into the process and affecting the agreement that was reached that affects their very lives. Everything from property rights to human rights of the more traditional. In the Philippines, women played an historic role in the Mindanao peace process, shaped the negotiations, mediated at the grassroots level. and were included in the peace accord. This was an accord with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and it brought all sides together for an end to the fighting, and local women remained very active in community building and preventing further conflicts. So there are countless cases, but it makes a difference. And It's one thing that I think we ignore the evidence-based case when we continue to marginalize women. I will just say that at the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace and Security, we publish a biennial Women, Peace and Security Index. And it looks at the well-being of women in three dimensions. And the dimensions are inclusion, the kinds of things we've been talking about, economics, political leadership, education, et cetera, inclusion, justice, are women discriminated against, and security, are you safe? Are you safe in your home? Are you safe in your society? And why? Because there is a direct correlation between the well-being of women and the well-being of nations. Afghanistan on that index of 190 countries is dead last today. And the countries that are at the bottom are not stable. They are often mired in conflict. The countries are not prosperous. The countries that are at peace and prosperous, the well-being of women is significant. And I might say that Iceland always comes off, since we're going to hear from Iceland. at the very top. But these are critical issues, and I think it's time to stop ignoring the centrality of these issues. They're not marginal. You cannot exclude half of society and expect a good outcome.

Thank you. Thank you, Ambassador. Ms. Mehran, we're going to give you the final words so that we have enough time to allow the Prime Minister to make statements and also to allow for audience questions. So last question to you is, and you started touching on this, but tell us more about why, what is codifying, why is codifying gender apartheid under international human rights law so critical to any future peace, any future process in Afghanistan?

First and foremost is this is what women of Afghanistan are asking for. They describe their lived experiences, how the operation is totalizing and how what they are experiencing is systematic and institutionalized and shouldn't be excused by any religious or cultural relativism. And that's where we should start this discussion. Let me go back to 2018 and why I say we need to rely and hear on women of Afghanistan and hear what they demand. So when the peace negotiation started, women across Afghanistan, maybe primarily in cities, who had access to the negotiators or international community who did negotiate on our behalf without our presence, were saying that some of the demands that's being raised comes actually from the women who are in cities. It's not the demand of women in provinces. And then we started a Feminine Perspectives campaign. And we went to the rural areas, very remote, to Kandahar, Zabul, Badakhshan, Farjab. And we talked to the women and asked them what they want from the peace process. And the goal is of where you went to, if the woman was educated or not, she was like, I couldn't go to school. I want my daughter to go to school. If I am sick, I want to have the freedom to go to the doctor. And then we decided that each week of the campaign be dedicated. I'm speaking about 2018, 2019, about one right, education. And second week was about employment. And we have thousands of stories, videos, audio, and text that women from across Afghanistan sent their notes. And when the Taliban came, so they started exactly banning education and employment. And today, I founded and work on the Afghanistan Justice Archive that document how this totalizing system of oppression is have established gender apartheid regime inside Afghanistan. By telling that this story, I wanted to say that women of Afghanistan knew what is coming, and we now know what welcome. So that's why we are asking for the codification of gender apartheid, because I ask this question, and I am sure every woman inside Afghanistan, if gender apartheid was codified back in 1996 to 2001, first year of Taliban, would we be going through it again? And that's why I think why it is very key and important that we recognize it and within that framework allow international community to define its engagement towards Afghanistan, which will help us to be principled. And also, I think as Ambassador Adela at the beginning mentioned how years of war has traumatized us. There is so much grievances. And I don't want us to go through another bloodshed and civil war to score things between ourselves or to express our traumas. I think gender apartheid is one of the very few frameworks that enable us to tell our stories. Because I went to school after 2001 in Badakhshan in northeast of Afghanistan, and I came to Kabul for university. Because gender apartheid was not codified, they didn't teach my generation what women went through between 1996 and 2001. And because most of the policies were set by international community, our curriculum, how they designed it, was paid and, I think, was designed in Nebraska University in the US. Then they didn't listen to us. And then now I think if we are asking for codification of gender apartheid to tell our stories within that framework, to process our grievances towards it and seek a political solution and settlement for Afghanistan grounded on accountability and justice within the framework of gender apartheid, I think it is the obligation of international community to say yes to it, and that's why codification is important.

Well, I can't think of a more powerful note to end the panel discussion. Thank you. It's been a real honor. Thank you to all the panelists. I'm sorry we had to cut it short, but I'm now going to hand the floor back to Ambassador Raz.

Thank you, Professor Offer, for this excellent moderation. And as always, I'm in stand with my dear sisters from Afghanistan with the powerful voice and the incredible stories that you all shared, and of course, to our brother. Mr. Rahim, for your powerful voice as well. Now, it is my honor to introduce our keynote speaker, Katrin Jakobsdottir, served as the Prime Minister of Iceland from 2017 to 2014, and becoming the country's second woman to hold the position. She previously served as Iceland's Minister of Education, Science and Culture and Minister for Nordic Cooperation, and was a member of Iceland's Parliament for 17 years. Throughout her political career, she has placed a strong emphasis on gender equality, human rights, democracy, and women's participation in leadership. She also served as chair of the Council of Women World Leaders, bringing together women heads of government from around the world. Katrina is also a fellow advisory member of the Reykjavik Global Forum, where I have the honor of working with. Her experience as a woman political leader and her work advancing equality and inclusive governments makes her perspective particularly relevant to today's conversation on women, peace and justice in Afghanistan. Catherine, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Adela. Thank you for inviting me. It's a true honor to be here today. And thank you to all of the speakers I heard and I think this discussion is hugely important. As you mentioned, I served as the Prime Minister of Iceland from 2017 to 24. So I watched the proceedings in 21 and in Afghanistan and Iceland, we used our voice to raise attention to the devastating situation of women and girls in Afghanistan, both here at the UN General Assembly, but also at the UN Human Rights Council and other high level meetings. The way I see it, you know, I always say it's a coincidence where you're born. We are all human beings. I was so extremely lucky to be born in Iceland in the late '70s. So I was actually in my mother's womb when she attended the women's strike that many of you might have heard of. And we have seen such remarkable achievements in gender equality in Iceland. So we are still leading, but we still haven't achieved full gender equality. The road, you know, we still have a long way to go to achieve that goal in spite of us being on top. But what I have learned is that every decision is better when you have both men and women at the table. And the world would be a better place if we had more women making decisions. So I just say these statements, not as an opinion, but something that I think we truly have examples of. Melanie mentioned some examples, and I could mention many more. And simply looking at economy, society, general well-being of a society, gender equality is always a part of that. Now, what we have seen in Afghanistan is, of course, severe crackdown of women's rights, and only in recent history, and that makes you wonder when you think you actually have achieved something, and then you see this dramatic backlash, but you also see the backlash in the rest of the world, because sadly, issues on gender equality have gone down on the political agenda, which is a devastating development, because for me, gender equality is about human rights. It's not just a closed issue where you can talk about in small rooms. It's not a soft issue. During my time as prime minister, I actually put the portfolio of gender equality under my portfolio as a prime minister, and everybody pointed at me and said, why are you doing this? You're a prime minister. Why are you going to talk about a soft issue like gender equality? And I said, this is really the toughest issue that there is. Because this is the dominant factor for the well-being of society, the economy, but it's also half of the population's human rights. So it's really a tough issue. So I personally, you know, I don't think I can tell you anything that you don't know about Afghanistan, but in my opinion, it's the most critical and severe gender crisis in the world right now. And I absolutely agree with what you were saying on gender apartheid, because I think to create an inclusive process, we need to think about many things. And one of those things is international law and how we can frame what is happening in Afghanistan with women and girls being deprived of education, as you have been talking about, of health services, of work participation, of leaving their homes. And of course, seeing the effects on mental health of women in the country being kept inside their homes. So this is really a situation. We also see the highest maternal mortality rates in Afghanistan. I was just looking at the new UN Women report, which is striking. Only 7% of women are employed, according to that report, compared to 84% of men. So women and girls have also been deprived of their rights to movement and to assembly. And of course, the opponents of the regime have been attacked. We see restrictions of freedom of media and expression. So it really reminds us, right, that gender equality is not like a linear development, that you're not kind of always moving, progressing slowly on the way. What we're seeing is a severe backlash, and it's most prominent in Afghanistan. And when I look at the numbers in this new report, I think, why isn't everybody here standing and screaming? What is happening? Why are we not there, all the other countries in the world, showing solidarity with Afghan women and girls? Because I agree with you, they are not the recipients of humanitarian assistance, but we have to show them solidarity. And this is not happening because what is happening is that this situation is becoming normalized. And I fear for that because I said, said, it's a coincidence where you're born. So actually, it can happen anywhere, right? We're seeing rights of women being pushed back in other countries as well. The reproductive and sexual rights being pushed back all sorts of discourse which is really elevating misogyny, making it normalized, even in my own country. So this is the backlash we're dealing with, and it's kind of manifests itself most clearly in Afghanistan. Now, also, I noticed in that report that nearly 3/4 of women-led organizations surveyed in Afghanistan experienced funding cuts. in 2025. More than half of them expects to suspend operations or close within the next year. Another reason that we should all be out there screaming because at the same time we see huge investments. There is a lot of money in the world. And on what is it being spent? It's being spent on AI, new technologies, which are really increasing inequalities in the world, unless we do something about it and create regulatory frameworks on it. They are being spent on weapons, military equipment. I can understand as well as any other person that there are conflicts in the world and there are tensions in the world. But this, we cannot let this happen because then we are not showing solidarity with Afghan women who are faced with gender apartheid. So I've already spoken half of my time, but what Adela asked me to talk about is really this inclusive peace process. And I think, you know, we had actually, the Icelandic government had a side event a few years ago in connection with the UN General Assembly. And I have learned, even though I have a lot to learn, that It's a complex situation. There are many different views on the right responses. How do you communicate?

With.

The Taliban regime, for example. But one thing that I know is that silence cannot be the right response. That cannot be the right response. We cannot just look away. And what I saw when I was reading that report is that hope is dwindling. Hope is dwindling because you know, about half of Afghan women interviewed in the report leave home only once or twice a month because of the severe restrictions on their movement and access to public space. And with this, obviously, has profound mental health consequences. So we see a mental health crisis there among women and girls, anxiety, despair, hopelessness. And I think it's our duty, the international community, how can we raise hope? Because without hope, nothing will happen. So, first thing for an inclusive peace process is that states of the world cannot stay silent on this. Even though, and you know, I have been working a lot on climate issues since I left professional politics, and climate has also been going down on the agenda, but I always say it's still there. Just look at what's happening around us in the environment, it's still there, it's not going anywhere, even though we're not talking about it. And the same can be said about gender equality. The challenges are there, and we who really care about these issues have to show solidarity. How do we create an inclusive process? Well, I absolutely agree with what you have said. Afghan women need to be an integral part of that process. So I think we need discussion on international law when it comes to gender apartheid. I think we need to push for a process where Afghan women are an integral part of it. How can we support them to be that? Well, we can put the pressure wherever we are. I think we need to raise our voice a lot higher on this issue. Of course, I spoke about funding. We need to talk about funding too because we need to step up our assistance to women who are actually trying to save themselves, because it's not really, it's not the one way assistance. We are supporting women that are trying to save themselves from this horrendous situation. solidarity with the liberation of Afghan women. And I'm sometimes asked, you know, because, you know, I come from a very peaceful country. We're also number one in peace. And I always say that is not a coincidence that we're number one in gender equality and number one in peace, because this goes hand in hand. This goes together. But let's not imagine ourselves for one moment that any of these achievements came without a struggle. Every achievement on gender equality has come with a struggle. Every woman who has raised her voice and spoken out loud for gender equality, even in Iceland, has encountered criticism, being pointed at, being spoken of as a radical, loud, terrible person. I won't go into the words that you sometimes see on the internet. But that is why I say nobody can do this on their own. And even though we need solidarity. And I'm talking about solidarity of women of the world, but also of the states that actually care for gender equality. And I can say that I am most certain that my country will be very happy to show solidarity. But I think even though I am out of government and out of politics, because this is just such an integral part of everything we are, but we need more countries to step up their game in funding, in pressure on international law, and on showing solidarity so Afghan women can become this integral part of the peace process, because otherwise we won't have that lasting, sustainable peace that Melanie spoke of here. So Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm going to stay a little bit further and listen to your thoughts. But I think for some reason, I was at an event this morning on gender-based violence. And for some reason, we move slowly. Even Iceland won't reach the SDG on full equality before 2030. I don't think so. I hope so for the time being, for some time, but I'm not sure that we will reach it. And I wonder sometimes why this inequality, why this oppression has such deep roots, such deep roots that every progress we make seems to me that we always slide a little bit back. So it takes forever. And I asked this question this morning and people said, well, is anybody speaking about SDG 5 anymore? because nobody really believes in it anymore, because we are furthest away from achieving that. And that makes me just, you know, I am the mother of three boys. I have raised them to become a man in a world of equal opportunities to both men and women. And that's why I want to conclude by saying I'm talking about solidarity of women, but we need the men on board for this project. We need them on board. We need leaders, men and women. We don't have many enough women leaders, sadly, to be the only ones that push for this agenda. We need more leaders to push for this agenda here at the UN, but also in different collaborations around the world. So thank you for inviting me and whatever I can do to support your cause, I'm happy to do that. Thank you.

Thank you, Catherine, for your passionate words. I've heard you so many times and every time, even if there weren't many Afghan women in the room, I've heard you echoing their struggle. And it's always rooms like here when it helps us to basically reflect and sort of put the challenges into a larger picture because we have been talking about regression of women's rights globally and how The regression in Afghanistan has been normalized and its impact that we are seeing and we are seeing it even more stronger and louder. So thanks to you. Thanks to our friend, Ambassador Milan, for her strong voice. She has been always a great friend of Afghan woman. And of course, we also have Her Excellency, the First Lady of Austria, who had been very kindly listening to all of us in this room. This gives us the space to open the room for Q&A and interventions. I know there's a lot of questions, but we do have about how many minutes? 10 minutes? We have about 10 minutes. We will open the floor for interventions and Q&A.

Yes, please.

And if you can introduce yourselves, and then I'll take that.

Thank you so much. My name is Bandana Rana, and I'm a member of the CEDAW Committee. So I'm here to express my solidarity for the women of Afghanistan. And I also wanted to share-- I happen to be here, and I said I have to make it over here. So I also wanted to share that last year, I led the dialogue, the constructive dialogue on Afghanistan within the CEDAW Committee. Given the restrictions that we had, of course, there were many issues as to whether we could hold a dialogue, but we wanted to show and shout out to the women in Afghanistan that they are not forgotten, that we are continuing to see what can be done within our mandate. So I want to reiterate the unwavering commitment of the CEDAW Committee. We stand behind women and girls. their voices, their rights, their lived realities have to be the central of all discussions and the concluding observations. I mean, it was a unique dialogue without the representation of the government, of course, but we had very active civil society from Afghanistan participating in it and the concluding observations reflect the restrictions faced by the Afghani women and calls for concrete action from all quarters to ensure that their voices are at the center of this discussion. So wanted to actually, I'm happy to be here, enriched, and thank you for all the stories that you have shared. But we will continue to do what we can do, but wanted to express our solidarity. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. I know we have two questions, three questions here. And I also have a youth voice, a student from Princeton University who had prepared to share his remarks. So I'm going to go ahead with you, sir, and then you and then following the next next.

So I like them. Good evening, everyone. My name is Fazal Mumtaz. I'm the CEO of Sahara Programs, one of the local nonprofits, national nonprofits that is leading the, specifically, we are working on the domestic violence shelters, women education, mental health. And talking about the beautiful conversation that we had today, what I am proposing that can we come up to a conclusion or a resolution that we can join hands together from this room.

And expanding this work.

Like I know everyone is sitting over here is coming from different expertise and different niche and different, you know, with different organizations. And so how we can, right now the need is that, you know, we should develop an ecosystem for women empowerment, women rights, women education, gender-based violence, domestic violence, like, you know.

So childhood marriages, this kind of stuff?

So can we come to a conclusion or a resolution?

My question will be directly from him.

So how we can come to a conclusion or resolution to end this conversation for a meaningful way or a good ending for this conversation. Thank you.

Thank you. And we will take all the questions and answer within one minute by each.

Distinguished moderator, my name is Ellen Creta Dale, and I serve as the global science policy focal point for the United Nations Major Group for Children and Youth. I am also the senior product design lead for Agentic AI, where I work to support over 75% of Fortune 500 and around 450 million human interactions daily. And listening to all of the remarks, a really critical question comes to my mind, which is, while diplomatic frameworks work to restore women and girls to public classrooms and civic life, how can technology step in right now as an immediate protective safety net, keeping them learning today without exposing them to physical harm? And as an example, in the global youth consultations that I coordinate across UN member states, I review ongoing testimonies from educators and young women on the ground. And while many rely on smartphones to run informal home-based learning circles, human rights reps from the and often document arbitrary device inspections at street checkpoints. So if an inspector demands a password and discovers an unclear browser tab, a lesson plan, or a messaging thread, the danger cascades. And further, under de facto guardianship enforcement, even male relatives are held collectively liable, facing sermons, harassment, and arbitrary detention too. And because I work in designing risk and data governance architectures for systems, one reality is very clear that currently ordinary consumer apps are engineered to track, store and sync data by default, which makes them hazardous in restrictive settings. So that's my question on how can we take a technology lens on protecting data if people are using it in a safety scenario? Thank you.

I will give that to Sahar, but later on she will respond. We'll go for one more question, and here we will come to Ambassador Seikel and the youth voice.

Can you hear me? Yeah. Thank you. This is really one of the bluntest discussions that I've been privy to on Afghanistan. I'm on the board of directors of the International Center for Transitional Justice, and I was 34 years with the UN and in six peace operations on the ground, from Namibia to Cambodia to Kosovo to Timor, et cetera. And three comments or three issues, I think, were raised but really weren't I think probed enough given their importance. Ambassador Verveer mentioned the international community. I'd like to go into that on what is the Security Council doing? Why hasn't the mandate changed? Is the international community complicit by acquiescing to the division within the council so it's easier to just let the same mandate go on and on. The former Prime Minister mentioning about the outrage, I just saw six months ago the film of the women's movement that's just been issued on the Iceland process. Where is the outrage? Where is the five years we've had to unify people in the world to express our outrage? There's no comparable situation to the situation of women and girls. So that's another piece. And your very, Mr. Rahim's point about where's the framework. I was in Cambodia from the start and in Timor, in Namibia where we had these big processes and they're not dictated by the UN. People came together, it's a national led voice process, but the UN was there to facilitate it. Where are we with this Afghanistan? And there was the big study done for a year, remember? And that was very controversial. Finally, we've got everyone on board on the council to pass that resolution. Whatever happened to it? Where's the special representative or special envoy that was supposed to be appointed? And where's the outrage that that hasn't happened? So those three aspects, I the complicity really of the Security Council in the international community. I don't include the Human Rights Council and entities like that, but I think we really have to ask, you know, the mandate keeps getting renewed. It's easier to not change the mandate. Why? I mean, where's the outrage? And the women, peace and security expert group of the council, I even ask, does it need to be kicked up a peg? The permanent reps, I know the answer, the permanent reps are not involved in those discussions. So a rethink on that part too. So I just wanted to say that really, really struck by these comments. I wish the council would hear, would have all been here to hear that. Thank you.

Thank you. I will give that to Ambassador Milan later to respond. And I will come to Ambassador Seikel and then the youth voice. And we have one more last intervention there, and I think we can wrap it up. Ambassador Seikel.

Thank you very much. I think what we heard in here, again, we should, we must, it needs to be. But there is very little discussion about what are we going to do. After the passage of five years, the answer is very clear. The Taliban is not the answer to anything. The question shouldn't be who the Taliban are and what they do. The question should be who we are and what we do. And I think very good question was raised there. From the, it's our job, it's the job of the people of Afghanistan, it's the job of the non-Taliban camp to put our acts together. And I think there is a clear interest in the part of the opposition to the Taliban put their acts together. We've had gatherings, numerous gatherings in different places. I would like to thank the First Lady of Austria for being here. Vienna has been a facilitator of the talks of the people of Afghanistan about what to do. Facilitation of the international community, the key word. That's our expectation. It's our job to put our vision together, to put our strategy together, to put our alternative political structure together, to put our mechanism of implementation and monitoring together, and our call is upon the international community to please be part of the wider non-Taliban camp and facilitate, especially, especially this building where I served for four years. I think we have to give up with reacting. Every time you put a solution on the table of the UN here, we're just looking at it. We don't show interest. The time has come. I think the Security Council is divided. International community is divided. The entire international system has become wobbly given what's happening around the world, what's happening in the Middle East, what's happening in Ukraine and all that. But I think we leave that to the heavyweights to sort it out. Our call is to put our own acts together and we're working on that. And we call upon the international community to please facilitate. Thank you.

Thank you, Ambassador Saikal. If Ms. Sakhi has a reflection on that, one minute, you can share your thinking. I will give the floor to the youth voice.

Excellencies, distinguished ambassadors, professor, and colleagues, thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to this important discussion today. My name is Baymurzomunbekov. I am a student at Princeton University, and I'm from Kyrgyz Republic, a country in Central Asia that, like Afghanistan, has experienced periods of political and social transformation. And today, I would like to offer a perspective from the younger generation. When we speak about peace and reconciliation, we often focus on immediate objectives of a peace process, ending violence, reaching political agreements and establishing institutions capable of maintaining that stability. But I believe we should also ask a long-term question: what kind of political community are we building today for the generation that will inherit it? For young people, peace is not simply an outcome of negotiations. It is the political, social, and institutional environment in which our generation will live. That is why meaningful youth participation matters. Young people should not be viewed only as beneficiaries of peacebuilding or as a demographic group to be consulted after major decisions have already been made. We are stakeholders in our political future of our countries. And I believe the same principle applies even more fundamentally to women. Women cannot be treated simply as beneficiaries of peace, protection, or humanitarian assistance. They are political actors whose participation is essential to building a lasting and inclusive peace. For Afghanistan in particular, this means ensuring that Afghan women are able to participate in discussions about governance, justice, reconciliation, and the future of their country. A peace process cannot be truly inclusive if a significant part of society is absent from the decisions that will define the country's future. And for young people, participation also carries an important responsibility. We are not simply only the generation that will live with the consequences of today's political decisions. We can also contribute to the rebuilding trust, straightening communities, and creating greater understanding across generations. And ultimately, sustainable peace is about more than ending violence. It is about rebuilding trust, creating inclusive institutions, and giving different part of society a place in the country's political life. For Afghanistan, ensuring the meaningful participation of women and young people can therefore be an important part of national healing and reconciliation. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for the youth voice from the region and really helping us to once again reflect and the incredible role that youth plays and the peace processes. We have one more intervention and then we will give the floor to speakers, if Mr. Fayek allows me, for one minute reflection to each of these interventions and questions. Please, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much, Ambassador Ross. My name is Ogaila Loza Wardak. I would say,. Good evening, everyone. And for my introduction, I am a woman who spent 24 years of her life back in Afghanistan. I've seen my father and my mother both struggle with life in Afghanistan. And that's why I cannot just say, it's unfair for me to say that my mother was the one only struggling. I've seen my father struggle as much in the system, if not more or less than my mother. And that's why my objection to today's discussion is we have left a huge proportion or a huge portion of the society, and that is the rest of the 20 million Afghans, the men in the society. And my question to all of the panelists and people who are participants in here is that what is our plan to, as Mr. Rahim would put it, to galvanize, galvanize and move the rest of the population to actually sustain the progress that was made. And let us ask us one question. What was the reason that we couldn't actually sustain the progress, the developments that were made between 2001 and 2021? What is the reason? And also I would ask a question. If the international community has failed to encourage the people of Afghanistan to stand on their own feet and put their act together, and I would say yes, they have failed, because I would ask how long will we rely on outsiders to make us recognize our rights for women, because at the end of the day, women are supposed to live with their husbands, their fathers, their brothers, and that's part of their daily life. They cannot leave their homes. And if those people who are living with them at their homes are not able to protect them, do not have that courage to protect them, then I think we failed as a community to make that change as the international community. And for me, my goal, my vision for an Afghanistan, a successful, an ideal Afghanistan as a woman would be For my father to live as prosperous as my mother, my brother to have the same opportunities as me. And as Mr. Rahim put it, the boys are not doing as well. They are getting subpar education too. I'm not here to speak for boys, but what I'm saying is that We should think of moving the men. We should actually think of how to reason with them, how to bring them to the table, how to make them recognize what the women in Afghanistan has suffered and has been suffering. And there should be a way. I don't accept the reason that there isn't any way to speak and reason with them. I've spoken to men, I've spoken to my father, and I know, I know there is a way. And we should stop alienating them. We should stop and eliminating them from the discussion. Thank you. And I would appreciate to hear more about how to move them around, how to encourage them to help and support the women. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I will let that to Ms. Mehran to respond in one minute. So we can start with Ms. Mehran and then Raheem Seib and then Farishta John. Ms. Alukozei and Ambassador Milan. We will give you the hardest part to sort of wrap that up.

So I have maybe 60 seconds and I divided. Let me see if I can take care of it. First, on the complicity issue, we have also raised this question of UNAMA and also the larger UN bodies inside Afghanistan, are they complicit in violation of the UN Charter and its principles? Because it's been a year that women of Afghanistan are not allowed within the UN premises, as the various starting thing. There is ban on female aid workers. Me and my legal colleagues, we are thinking about an assessment that has been done in Myanmar to see if we can put that ask forward that something like that can happen in Afghanistan or something because there is a case. I'm not sure if I can clearly speak on legality of it, but this is concern of complicity is something that women of Afghanistan and the movement of women and also men have been raising it. So, yes, we are thinking about it. And on the main issue, so when we speak about gender apartheid, how we are analyzing and studying the situation in Afghanistan is how it's part of the governing strategy of the Taliban. And that's where we see that women and men are coerced into enforcement of those policies. on a lot of these bans and laws, men are subject to punishment too. And then if you see madrasification process of the Taliban to socially engineer the society in a way that can, the regime of the Taliban can sustain, so you see women are subject, men are equally being violated in the process. And that's what we are discussing and hopefully the implication on the larger society is seen by men too, and men who speak on behalf of women and come on the streets and raise, they are being imprisoned and tortured. So that is part of the discussion of codification of gender apartheid too, on how men are coerced into implementing those decrees. And we can talk more about it if you needed further clarification.

Thank you. I would quickly... Yes, I know. I'll quickly go to the question. Thank you very much for asking me this question. This was part of the panel discussion, but you couldn't ask it. So what I would suggest is that not only this group, but broader group, and as Ambassador Saikal said, the UN should lead to bring the Afghan women from being the agenda point for discussion and turning them into a voice that discuss Afghanistan. Let's stop discussing Afghan women. Help them start talking about Afghanistan themselves. Isn't it possible to give a seat to the Afghan women at the General Assembly every year? We have the Women forums, women NGOs, we can have an election, which again will demonstrate the political activism among the Afghan women, and then bring them into the General Assembly, to the Security Council, so that they don't talk about Afghan women, as you said, but they talk about Afghanistan and the broader issue of Afghanistan. That is men, women, Afghan society. I begin my talk about Afghan society, so yes. That's the bare minimum that international community can do. And the facilitation, as you talked about, is the bare minimum that is the responsibility of the United Nations that it should be undertaking. Thank you.

Continuation of what Ambassador Sackal mentioned. I strongly recommend that when Afghans are sitting around the table to provide a vision for peace, It should include accountability and reconciliation at the heart of it, because any peace process that lacks accountability and reconciliation as key factors, it will kind of slide back to chaos. And when we talk about accountability, we have to understand that we are a country in fragility and conflict for the last for decades. So there is a lot of accumulated grievances, accumulated trauma, and a lot of violations of women human rights that should be taken into consideration. And all stages of conflict should be assessed, and based on that, an inclusive peace process with these two components should be taken into account. Thank you.

About technology being used as means to provide education, that is a method that we see prominently in Afghanistan's education interventions right now. However, by no means can these online educational methods or models that are being introduced be a replacement for a formal national education system in the country. It is A great immediate intervention to be introduced, but it comes with its own set of challenges. Safety is one of them, but other challenges that comes with it is access to the Internet. How many? Afghan women have access to Internet, how many of them have access to devices to be able to attend these programs. We do have an online program at Sahar and that is the most challenging program we have had so far, even more challenging than the in-person underground programs that we are running right now because of those--because these challenges are so out of control that we can't have solutions to immediately. And I also wanted to quickly comment on men inclusion of men in these discussions. I highly, highly support that and one way could be introducing programs that are working with younger men to disrupt that cycle before it translates into their adulthood. We are running a similar program at Sahar. We name it Men as Partners in Change and we look at women's issue from a male perspective and how men can support women and their families and communities to reach their full potential. But yes, that's an important aspect of the work that we all should be doing.

Thank you.

Just really quickly, particularly to follow up on Nina Lahood's point about the Security Council. I think we need accountability in the Security Council because really when the process for Afghanistan was adopted a couple of years ago, not just the Secretary General's representative, but also that mosaic process that has faltered in terms of being a comprehensive process the independent all kinds of things and the whole point of it was we need a strategic plan in the Security Council for Afghanistan and that's been missing so I endorse what you said and I hope we can find a way to to put more pressure on I think it is political and lack of attention or or concern And I just want to respond really quickly to what you said, because I think for society to come together, it has to be men and women. And it's not a zero sum game. When women benefit, men benefit. When men benefit, women should benefit. I worry about the madrasa education of young men today that's happening in Afghanistan. Very extreme interpretation. It's going to affect this thinking that that you mentioned is problematic potentially for the future. If that's the only way the boys of Afghanistan are going to learn, that's not a good outcome for the future of the country.

Once again, thanks and sincere gratitude to our incredible speakers, to our passionate contributors today with your perspective and your interventions to our very powerful and strong keynote speakers, including Iceland, including Panama, and of course we had Austria. Now it's my great honor to give the floor back to Ambassador Fike to conclude today's conversation, hopefully in a short version.

Thank you so much. Thank you. I think nothing left for me, but just let me First, thank you. We have come to the end of a rich and important discussion. On behalf of the Permanent Mission of Afghanistan and our co-organizers, I want to thank you all, and I thank our keynote speaker, Her Excellency, former Prime Minister of Iceland, and also his Excellency, former foreign deputy foreign minister of Panama for his presence and for their support here. And also the her Excellency, the first lady of Austria, because there was a talk about Security Council members. Austria will be in the Security Council next year. And also Panama is the current member. I think it's great that they are already here. And also I would like to express our many thanks to Professor offer or they offer for moderating so ably and to our panelists, Mr. Miss Ali, Dr. Saki, Mr. Rahim, and also Miss Mehran and Ambassador Verveer for your insights and candor. And I thank Ambassador Ross, our co-organizer and Afghanistan from Afghanistan Policy Lab, along with Afghanistan Justice Archive and Gender Apartheid and Georgetown and Institute for Women, Peace and Security for their partnership and support and putting together this event. And also I thank all the member states and representatives who took the floor and everyone who joined us online or in person. Our gratitude goes as well as to the UN staff and conference services colleagues who have provided technical support for all of us. And I don't want to summarize because there are so many things already mentioned. Just want to conclude that on behalf of the Afghan men, I just would like to add that our voice of Afghanistan mission, I on behalf of men and also so many other Afghan youth, I have seen that Afghan men are so much They abhor the policies of the Taliban as Afghan men. We are so much embarrassed and ashamed that we see how heinous policies they have adopted, but majority of Afghan people or Afghan men are fighting for the rights of Afghan women and girls, shoulder to shoulder. We are providing this platform for Afghan women every year, not only during the General Assembly, but also the CSW, and this is our commitment and it will continue. But thank you so much Y nos lo echó a la vista.